More exciting news about Bachmann K4

[muktown128]

A brass Precision Scale PRR K4 just sold for $175.  This is probably less than half of what they sold for a few months ago...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/N-Scale-Precision-Scale-Brass-Pennsylvania-K4s-/181853386444?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=3T3H2SlKjP8iSeemBLTppc%252Fh1wU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Does anyone think this will happen to the prices of M1's when the ones from BLI come out?

Scott

[Mark5]

Plan on taking a long time to make a decision to buy, eh? ☺

Not really, I'll test run it at the local hobby shop. 

[strummer]

A brass Precision Scale PRR K4 just sold for $175.  This is probably less than half of what they sold for a few months ago...
Scott

When I first saw this, I was gonna ask if anyone thought it might be worth as much as the B-mann issue; or visa-versa.

Mark in Oregon

[mmagliaro]

I don't expect the Key M1's to drop in price that much.  The M1 was a well-design, good-looking, and fairly good-running model.  With a better motor in it, it can become an excellent-running model.   It still doesn't have
sound or DCC, and assuming the BLI engine runs well, the Key engine would need work to match it.
I think it will dip, but not like the PSC K4.

Because....

The PSC K4 is a cruel hoax foisted upon the N Scale community.
Just to be functional, it needs extensive work on pickups, frame, short circuits, and
motor.  It has crooked lettering on the tender and paint that was too green and was
so thick it must have been put on with a butter knife.

The only reason the PSC K4 ever commanded high prices was because it was brass and it was a Pennsy K4.
One would start with the PSC, and then gut, rebuild, repaint, etc, and end up with a good model
if you had the time and the skill.

The PSC K4 was a HORRIBLE ENGINE.

(Don't sugar-coat it, Max.  Tell us how you *really* feel.    )

The Bachmann engine will beat it on performance, looks, DCC readiness, and almost any other measure.
People may quibble about the couplers or the whistle, but that's nothing compared to what the PSC
engine needs.

The good news for tinkerers is that the PSC just became a "parts engine", so maybe I can pick up
some valve gear and sets of drivers cheap one day.

[Dave V]

The PSC K4 is a cruel hoax foisted upon the N Scale community.

The PSC K4 was a HORRIBLE ENGINE.

Preach it, brother Max!

[victor miranda]

we are not allowed to bring any negativism to the b-mann unit
and
we are allowed to berate the competition?

That seems well past a double standard.

If you think the minitrix k4 is wanting... looks, performance or such
the brass k4 looks far better.  I think performance is .... similar.
the minitrix unit is a lot less expensive however.
Brass costs what it does because of how they are made... tiny brass castings and hand built.
heaven help you if you want a brass loco to perform on rails.

I have yet to get one with CAPP for example.

now just because a brass k4 is lacking
does not make a b-mann unit an outstanding consumer product.
the bar is set mighty low using brass as a standard.

I suggest y'all look at the recent offerings from... well who else?
as your standard.

If the price of the brass units falls, I'll get another. 175 seems good to me.

victor

[chicken45]

I think the problem is that people were bitching about the Bachmann before it was even released. That brass K4 has already established itself as a DGLE turd. At the time, it was speculation that the Bachmann one would be a turd, basing judgement on past releases instead of actual performance.

[davefoxx]

we are not allowed to bring any negativism to the b-mann unit
and
we are allowed to berate the competition?

That seems well past a double standard.

Victor,

Not a double standard.  The difference was the negatism against Bachmann when NO ONE had their K4 in hand yet.  Many complaints were based on speculation or video of a preproduction unit, rather than first hand knowledge.  To complain about the PSC is to complain about a locomotive that was produced years ago and there is much first-hand knowledge.  Max and Dave V.'s statements, while they are opinion, are reasonable, because they both have owned and/or tinkered with the PSC K4.

DFF

[Kisatchie]

we are not allowed to bring any negativism to the b-mann unit
and
we are allowed to berate the competition?

That seems well past a double standard.

It's not fair to trash a product before it even reaches the market. However, once a product is out (and it is apparently a lemon) all bets are off. It's fair game for criticism. No double standard involved.


Hmm... I'll have a
double banana daiquiri...

[victor miranda]

Victor,

Not a double standard.  The difference was the negatism against Bachmann when NO ONE had their K4 in hand yet.  Many complaints were based on speculation or video of a preproduction unit, rather than first hand knowledge.  To complain about the PSC is to complain about a locomotive that was produced years ago and there is much first-hand knowledge.  Max and Dave V.'s statements, while they are opinion, are reasonable, because they both have owned and/or tinkered with the PSC K4.

DFF

ok. you think b-mann is going to make a substantially better unit in the k4
over the berk?

I have said they are VERY likely to be the same.
and then blasted  the berk.   and I pointed out that difference.

if we can't speak of what was and what is very likely to be,
we are creating a situation where we are advertising for the product.

the k4 is not going to have any surprises...
what a shame.

victor

[chicken45]

Again, none of that matters. The problem was judging an unreleased product before it was released. Can't convict a perp on "probably."

[Dave V]

Victor,

What everybody else said.  The PSC K4 is crap.

The Bachmann K4, until very recently, was undetermined because no one owned one yet.

This is not a double standard.  It's not even a subtle difference.

Preemptive bashing not OK, bashing of a product that's been on the market for years and with which not one single person has even piped up with a positive experience, OK.

EDIT:  You will note I did not push back against any of the Berk bashing.  I don't own one, but bashed on the majority of what folks have said, neither would I want one.

[mmagliaro]

I did not expect such a furor over this.

I based my statements about the PSC K4 on direct first-hand knowledge from repairing
3 of them.
I based my statements on the Bachmann K4 on seeing one and running it first-hand, and on seeing
some video of a few others running.   Video isn't perfect, granted.  But it looks better than the video
I've seen of the Berk, and it runs better than the Berk I had here.

I was responding to a question about whether or not the brass M1 would drop in value like the
PSC K4 apparently has.
So I explained why I thought that would not happen, and that necessarily involves explaining why
I think the brass M1 is better than the brass K4, and why I think the Bachmann K4 is better than the brass K4.

[peteski]

The latest NTRAK newsletter has a review of the K4 and Berk. I was really surprised with just how poorly these reviews rated both models.   Not surprised by the performance but by the fact that those reviews were published.

So, now that it is "officially" in the NTRAK newsletter - we can go ahead and bash away! Or really, just continue the preemptive bashing which now became post-release bashing.   

Actually, as predicted, Bachmann lives up to their reputation.  They keep on trying, but the same $hit happens again and again.

[victor miranda]

k guys,

listen close.

every one of you is wrong about the double standard.

if we can be negative about a product
we are allowed to be negative at any point in the life of that product.

hands on has not one even little thing to do with it.
as an example lets discuss vapourware, and ten year old product promises.

victor

ahem, max, I have no problem with your assessment of the brass k4.
I may not agree, but I understand why you say it.