More exciting news about Bachmann K4

[wcfn100]

You will probably note as I have that any product announcement follows a very predictable pattern, which usually goes like this: 

1)  "Model X announced by Company Y!" 
2)  "Cool, I need one!"
3)  "I don't need one, but it looks pretty good!"
4)  "I don't need one, but I know enough about it to point out that detail Z is wrong."
5)  "Yeah, Company Y always makes mistakes like that"
6)  "I won't ever buy from Company Y because everything they make is a turd."
7)  "Because it's Company Y, Model X will not only look awful, it won't run worth a crap either."
8 )  "It's like Company Y tries to be wrong...why couldn't Company A do this model instead?"
9)  "<Ahem> Company A also makes crap and I won't buy from them either."

So, if you could, at what number would you want to stop the conversation?

Jason

[victor miranda]

wcfn100,

ummmm.
lets start with the moderators are needed to run this place.
the moderators are doing what is hard work.
they are not paid for that effort.

none of the above is intended to be praise for them.

it is said to let you know that poking a sleeping bear has unique rewards.

I can find a line for our moderators ...

when the pokers have all poked the bear once
they have to let the bear sleep for a day to keep it from getting cranky for lack of sleep.

more less avoid making the same comments over and over.

I am looking forward to the "i told you so"  part of the pattern....

victor

[Dave V]

Jason,

It's not so much about stopping a conversation but recognizing when it's stopped being useful.  I would say step 5 is when things start causing concern for the mods.  By step 6 it's going downhill fast.

Victor,

Thank you for recognizing that what we do is not always easy or rewarding.  There may very well be an "I told you so" moment.  But I deal with data as a scientist, and while we like to say that "persistence is the best forecast (and you're making a persistence forecast)," there's a danger of linear extrapolation in a non-linear system.  That's my geeky way of saying that just because some of Bachmann's releases have been flops, it does not follow as a matter of scientific certainty that all following releases will be.  In fact, just based on simple linear extrapolation, there's a roughly 50/50 chance of awesomeness.  That was my main earlier point.

So again, I'm not drawing lines in the sand.  Rather, I'd prefer for the membership to more self-policing in terms of recognizing when they've led a thread astray.  I would sooner resign my moderator status than to become Thought Police, but I do want to help steer the membership toward a more constructive environment...if that makes any sense.

[wcfn100]

lets start with the moderators are needed to run this place.
the moderators are doing what is hard work.
they are not paid for that effort.

And are much appreciated.


Jason

[victor miranda]

Hi Dave,

well, in that post you have made at least one thing very clear to me.
I can see where you feel you need to step in and 'moderate'

I think I can honor that guidance much better now.

....
you have given me an idea for a thread.
I'll have to do some preparation for it, so it may take a day or two.

victor

[John]

Dave .. you left something out ..

and while we like to say that "persistence is the best forecast (and you're making a persistence forecast)," there's a danger of linear extrapolation in a non-linear system.

Persistence is the best forecast -- until something changes ...  I've seen a lot of changes in Nscale locos .. some of them maintain the old trajectory -- but most always improve ...

[Rich_S]

Sigh...  It's subjective, but there's a difference between "needs more cowbell" and "if it's made by X it's gonna be a steaming pile." 

Dave, My original sentence was more tongue in cheek humor and a tip of the hat on trying to walk the thing line before the lock is applied, that's why I used the very big smile emoticon. I do understand your point and I understand how hard of a job the moderator really do have trying to keep a thread from getting out of control. 

I'll be the first to say, if you told me 30 years ago Bachmann was releasing a new steam locomotive, I would have yawned and changed the subject. Today I truly believe Bachmann has made great strides to release quality products. Like you, I hope that negativity has not pushed away any manufacture who happens to read this board looking for feedback.  I have seen it happen on other boards.

My closing comment, I would love to see a video of this new Bachmann K4, How is its slow speed performance?

[delamaize]

Okay guys so I was using voice to text this morning. And it isn't always 100% accurate. Matter of the fact sometimes is downright funny. I fixed the original post from earlier today. It should make more sense now. They also stated that they do watch this forum from time to time. & I also got the canned response that they're happy to see the criticisms and suggestions because it helps them make a better model.

[wcfn100]

It's not so much about stopping a conversation but recognizing when it's stopped being useful.  I would say step 5 is when things start causing concern for the mods.  By step 6 it's going downhill fast.

Thanks, Dave.  The only reason I put you on the spot a little was that it think #4 gets a bum rap sometimes.   

Especially when you say things like this.

Or, what I read is "I know something!  Pay attention to me!  And I'll complain louder and louder until everyone agrees with me (or the thread is locked)!"

I'm just trying to get better models made.

Jason

[delamaize]

Video later this evening. It runs super smooth, sound is good. The gentleman I talk with said he may switch the whistle over to the three chime this afternoon. If that's the case, I will try to get a video of that.

[VonRyan]

I'll be buying one.
And it also looks like Bachmann is now offering the trailing coach from their doodlebug sets as a separate item. MSRP is $79 though... So my K4 will only be pulling one coach.

[Dave V]

Especially when you say things like this.

Or, what I read is "I know something!  Pay attention to me!  And I'll complain louder and louder until everyone agrees with me (or the thread is locked)!"

Jason

Sorry if that seems harsh...  I'm not trying to be mean, but that is the impression some of us (including mods) get when sometimes a member just won't let go of a point that goes unacknowledged.  We've all seen it.  We've also probably all been guilty of it ourselves (as I probably am in this thread, LOL).

It's enough to make the point once in most cases.  If the collective chooses to consider that point unimportant or irrelevant, it's usually time to move on rather than to become more shrill.  Again, I know in this thread I could stand to take my own advice.  So there's a place for step 4.  Just not:

10    DO STEP 4
20    GOTO 10

[Bob Bufkin]

Just got my Oct issue of Trains in the mail and on the cover is the front end of K4 830.

[Dave V]

And just to keep driving this thread further off the tracks into the hinterlands... 

I was very much a poster boy for bad behavior way back when Broadway Limited's N scale division was called Precision Craft Models.  I said awful things about them every time my beloved M1 was postponed.  I never missed an opportunity to say something snarky about PCM or express my disgust at their delays and explanations.  And I did so on many forums, including BLI/PCM's own.

None of that made me a better man, nor am I proud today of the things I said.  Now, did anybody get hurt by it?  I doubt it.  But did it help anything?  Nope.  Not a bit.  And it probably gave people an impression of me I'd rather they didn't have.  Electrons are forever, and I use my real name as my user name, so I try to keep that in mind.  Knowing more manufacturers now than I did then also helped change my perspective.

So this is where I'm coming from.

[John]

I was very much a poster boy for bad behavior way back when Broadway Limited's N scale division was called Precision Craft Models.  I said awful things about them every time my beloved M1 was postponed.  I never missed an opportunity to say something snarky about PCM or express my disgust at their delays and explanations.  And I did so on many forums, including BLI/PCM's own.

And I think we banned you for a while