Ammonoosuc Valley RR

[nuno81291]

Hello fellow asshats! 

I am back again with another plan. Renovation of my basement is well underway and I anticipate my allowed space to be ready for benchwork by September.  Here is the latest revision of my track plan with a narrower focus after much soul searching with a direction for a layout. here are some anticipated specs:

Era- modern, style- around the room no peninsulas, 1 hinged bridge for continuous run. Location - freelance inspired by various scenes in New England including the Conway Scenic/ Crawford Notch, Weirs Beach in NH, Bellows Falls VT, and a true to scale replica of the Claremont Paper Mill in Claremont NH.

I plan to go to DCC for this layout as I have had enough fun with block wiring and cab control on my handful of chainsaw layouts that have met their fate up to now. I intend this to be solo operated generally, but want to go to DCC to enable wireless throttle control with more thought going to running trains than turning electrical switches on and off.

The primary theme of this is modeling scenery, having a long mainline run, incorporating some scenic elements (Mountain scene, lake scene with pier/paddle steamer i.e. Weirs beach), a Scenic railway yard ala North Conway NH. and some ability to do industrial switching in the industrial district. The industrial district will incorperate the over-under as seen by Wolfgang Dudler's Third Street Industrial district. This will let me incorporate the tight turns, steep grades and street running seen on the old trackage of the Claremont Concord Railway which has been an interest of mine since I got back into modeling. The industrial section is freelanced and has a handful of industries of various sizes. I am unsure if I want to model say Pan Am/Guilford doing the switching responsibilities as a local, or add an interchange for a freight to drop off/pickup somewhere on layout for the district switcher to handle spotting/pulling. Sort of unsure where I would put an interchange on the plan and may just leave it to staging.

. This yard trackage is a near duplicate of the Conway Scenic yard so I intend to operate it as close to the prototype as possible.

Any ideas? I would like to keep the scenic railway yard free of freight duties and perhaps expand trackage at the industrial portion for a small holding yard to assist in ops on that side. I could also envision a local coming out of staging and making due with the trackage to figure out how to get the job done.

Kind regards,

Mike

[coosvalley]

I see 3 things I don't like, and a bunch that I do like!..Lift outs and hidden staging are not ideal, but understandable....An LRV in Weirs Beach? ....Again, I understand that you want to include an LRV line, and there was a trolley down the street there many years ago, so it's within reason I suppose.....

I grew up swimming at Weirs Beach, and worked for Conway Scenic as well, so I am also very interested in seeing you make this happen....I am also a big fan of the street running C&C as well, and I like how the C&C and 3rd St were combined, that area looks fun to switch...

[nuno81291]

I see 3 things I don't like, and a bunch that I do like!..Lift outs and hidden staging are not ideal, but understandable....An LRV in Weirs Beach? ....Again, I understand that you want to include an LRV line, and there was a trolley down the street there many years ago, so it's within reason I suppose.....

I grew up swimming at Weirs Beach, and worked for Conway Scenic as well, so I am also very interested in seeing you make this happen....I am also a big fan of the street running C&C as well, and I like how the C&C and 3rd St were combined, that area looks fun to switch...

The more I thought about it the more I agree the LRV is just too much and I will keep it for a separate diorama.

However in regards to the staging and duckunder, I need the middle of the room to remain somewhat open (I drew versions of dogbones/open access) and After seeing a tutorial on youtube of a hinged duck under/bridge I thought that this would really not be too much of a complication considering it would remain up aside from running. I plan to have the layout mounted above my hobby desks so it should be tall enough for my currently young back to handle for a few decades...god willing of course.

Thank you for the comments - hopefully whatever I create will be able to invoke similar memories for anyone else who has had the opportunity to experience railfanning in NE.

Kind Regards

Edit: removing the paragraphs of unnecessary slop...no wonder no one responds

[nuno81291]

I decided to change the track configuration in the industrial area. I lengthened the siding to go over the bridge (atlas code 55 deck girder, will add an extension for 3 track bridge) to give the industrial section a bit more space from the main so a thru freight or passenger train wont have to worry. I intend to  keep the industrial section and scenic yard as yard limits speed restricted movements.

Any thoughts on the new track config? Perhaps it is too much track in this area? maybe I should keep it 2 tracks and force some coordination between 2 operators to make sure the mainline is cleared, seeing as there aren't many double mains up that way. Again I am not a hard core ops guy...but reading lance mindheims books/blog as well as discussing with historians and former engineers for the CCRR has the gears in motion.

Any recommendations on a turntable? The longest thing I plan to turn may be an 0-6-0 or RDC. I need about a 90' TT, and was eyeing the Kato (yuck...needs some serious modeling touch to make it seem 'real') and the walthers at 130' is just too large for the smaller feel I am after. I am not married to the idea of it being motorized and automated, and do sort of fancy the idea of manual control (not like M.C's fingerstrong example, I envision more of a fascia mounted manual crank/gear control to operate...then again part of me says K.I.S.S. and go for the kato (since it is probably bullet proof) and modify it to feed out to code 55 and do the best I can to paint/weather to hide those unsightly holes.... I could go for scratchbuilding this but why reinvent the wheel?


Thanks for any feedback!

[nuno81291]

BTW the Union Station/curved track in the middle of the room were just a test for a diorama for the trolley...totally unrelated to the layout. What i forgot to mention in the last post:

I REALLY want to include the frankenstein trestle, so I added another track that comes thru the closet out of staging and wraps into my home studio area...this will let me include a single track truss bridge like up on the Mountain Division as well as the frankenstein trestle (the curved structure...) maybe I can finagle the actual Notch into this portion. I am excited for this as I would love to be able to be working on music from my desk (which is a few feet from this new addition) and be able to see a train set on auto pilot to run thru..

My electrical considerations will have to be dealt with eventually. I want DCC. I want radio control. I like the NCE throttles so I am going to get my feet wet with the RC Power Cab Pro set. I will add probably one additional throttle so the sporadic visitor can come and run or have an Op session. I know I will need some sort of reversing mechanisim for the turntable. Unsure if I have created any reverse loops in the rest of the layout. I plan to run feeders to every piece of flex. and use manual slide toggles for controlling the atlas points/powering the frogs. Would love to figure out sound in one of the 44 tonners but the tutorial thread I saw has me balking on that idea. Perhaps I figure out a way to use stationary decoders? I am a musician and could donate some high quality room speakers but alas I have no idea what this entails.

I also need to do a lot of studying on LED lighting for structures. I want to include lights on this layout and I am unsure how one goes about planning these circuits in a sensible manner..Oh well not there yet.

Any  on the North Shore of MASS want to help with the electrical aspects when the time comes? Beer and Bacon will be served...and if that is not enough maybe some cold hard cash? 

[nuno81291]

Just to show I am not blowing smoke... here is my plan of the CPM mill in Anyrail to as exact 1:1 scale as I could get it...and the result on some foam and track. 44ton works like a champ on the grades. This will be one of the signature scenes/features on the layout. I will include my research photos as I move to terraforming to show comparisons of Proto views and how close my recreation will be... Now this is what I call FUN! 


Also the beginnings of my Foobie M/S Mt. Washington:
.I need to learn about LED lighting in regards to lighting a whole layout and how I can incorperate it with interior lighting as well as lighting this ship...So construction is at a halt while I figure out which LED will work best for lighting the interior of the ship... Gosh am I an electrical noob !

[nuno81291]

Updated plan. Thank you M.C. for suggesting the use of a curved turnout up top at the scenic RR yard, I also moved the staging ladder to be more accessible in the closet. I removed the mountain from this view to show my intention for staging, the mountain scene will sit independent of the layout with 12 - 18" clearance for easy access of staging. I may even consider trying to make a semi scenic area in staging.

Does anyone have an Ed's law example of a double track truss bridge having a track removed? I couldn't find much of anything about this and I have 2 of the walthers bridges put together I would like to use. I guess rule #1 could come to play here. Maybe I model some abandoned ROW for a little atmosphere and to further indicate the setting of modern day after the general contraction and consolidation of RRs.

Any feedback much appreciated. I am in contact with a fellow who was an engineer on the CCRR who is helping me make the paper mill as accurate as possible. Perhaps this portion of the layout being a strict 1:1 effort will pique the interest of the members of this forum than the protolance nonsense that has been strung together by imagination for the rest.

 Back to renovating the basement!

Mike

[nuno81291]

Okay can anyone suggest any track configurations for the mainline/siding/industrial trackage in the third street section? I am unsure if my crossover location before the overpass makes sense, I may ditch the water that is toward the fascia on this side and perhaps add another yard track while pulling the mainline toward the fascia to break up the "parallel to the edge" look I have in the plans posted. Trying to design this layout is a far step from my old HCD and multiple switching layouts so I am a bit confused.

[Specter3]

I dont think you need another track there. Three is fine. Yes running parallel to the edge is model railroady. But the tracks that go through towns like that in the cases I know tend to be strait rather than curving. You could make the edge of the layout swing in and out a bit to help that. The only issue I see is that the main generally goes throught the straight portion of the turnout. If you follow that logic the main is the line that is closest to the right side of the plan. Which is also where the industry turnouts are. You could fix that pretty easy on the bottom but with the turnouts on the curve it would be difficult on the top.

As far as where the crossover is I think it is ok. But just counting possible spots at industries there I get 9 or 10 spots not including the paper mill. And they are heavy duty traffic producers. I was wondering what your train length was planned to be and whether you planned to switch all the industries at once or break it up into different trains switch different industries.

[davefoxx]

Does anyone have an Ed's law example of a double track truss bridge having a track removed? I couldn't find much of anything about this and I have 2 of the walthers bridges put together I would like to use. I guess rule #1 could come to play here. Maybe I model some abandoned ROW for a little atmosphere and to further indicate the setting of modern day after the general contraction and consolidation of RRs.

I not only have an example, I've got a huge truss bridge reduced to one track.  I took the picture in the following link about seven years ago.  It's the CSX (former B&O) bridge over the Susquehanna River in Maryland.  This is CSX's largest bridge and has been single track for as long as I can remember, but you can easily see that there is room for a second track, which is now cluttered with a railing and other utilities:

http://davefoxx.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1022210

Hope this helps,
DFF

[nuno81291]

Dave thank you very much for the prototype example of my dilemma. Google did not serve me well in finding a prototype but I think you gave me a green light on keeping the area as a single track main with passing sidings/yard secondary trackage. Perhaps I try to model the bridge with utilities/etc occupying the former adjacent ROW.

Specter- I agree that originally I had tried to keep the main on the thru section of turnouts (on the original double track drawings it would have been the left most track in the third street area, allowing passenger or thru service to bypass the industrial section completely) substituting with curved turnouts has put the main right in between the small 'yard' and industrial trackage. I will need to play around here to see what I can do to make this area a little more aesthetically pleasing (either by changing the fascia or add a little curve to the yard area while accounting for my planned ops (which aren't really planned as you can tell...) pulling a prototype scene like the CPM mill into an area of freelanced design has my head scratching for just how this would operate.

. I envision train length to top out around 20 or so cars but I was thinking the local doing the spotting would switch all of the facing turnouts in one trip, and the return trip or a second train would to the trailing spots. The paper mill is its own job and by talking to the engineer of the former CCRR I am starting to get a better understanding of how ops on it were run/and frequency of traffic. There are only single car spots at the scale house for recycle paper unloading into the plant, finished roll loading for a single box, and a single spot for an oil tanker. At most this area should have 3 cars at any time. That should make for a grand total of about 11-15 car spots.

[nuno81291]

Doing a little "modeling" finally. making cardstock stand ins for the few key buildings on the CPM module that will eventually be replaced by styrene once I delve into the Cameo cutter (or another brand if someone can recommend...)



And here are a few pictures of the prototype to hopefully stir up interest:

Note: all of these pictures appeared on the website on not for profit sites, I share them strictly as research material and do not claim them as my work.













I will take pictures of my basement that this will be in, currently it is a massive construction project (thank the lord my dad is a pro contractor . Seeing as it will be a good month or two until I am ready to build benchwork, I will use my modeling time to really refine the track plan (THANKS M.C. - YOU ARE THE MAN!!! keep rocking !!!!) and focus on actual construction on the CPM module when the urge hits. I have a meeting in early August with the engineer who is former CCRR and he has a massive archive of information and first hand experience running the trains there. It is a 5 hour round trip but I plan to bring the module, any needed supplies to make track changes on the spot and finalize the track arrangement using all of our combined reference material so that way I can call the track location "done" and begin the serious amount of terraforming needed to bring about this incredible scene that captured my imagination years ago!

Thanks for reading

[R L Smith]

I'm enjoying reading about this, as I once modeled the St. Johnsbury area, and always loved the Claremont and Concord industrial mill area.

Regarding a double-track truss bridge that is now single-track, there are several examples in western New York on the former DL&W lines.  There is a two-span bridge just a mile or so north of Bath NY that would be a good example, and a single-span bridge a few miles further north.  You can get an aerial view on Bing maps, and I have a few detail photos I took a couple years ago if that would help. Also, there is a multi-span truss bridge just west of Binghamton NY.  Out of service now, but it did have a single track on it through the 70's.

Ron

[Specter3]

Love the pics!

Look at this. Swing the left side of the bridge deeper and angle it back toward the front coming to the right. That would give you space to have a left turnout before the curve necessary to get around the corner. My paint drawing is just for illustration as you can probably do this in such a way as to not loose that corner industry.

[nuno81291]

Thank you Specter for the suggestion. I tried to incorporate a similar concept in my latest revision. R.L. Smith I hope you enjoy seeing a fellow New England modeler's attempt to recreate the CPM complex in N scale! I have never modeled a prototype in this fashion (to as close as POSSIBLE!) so it should be interesting!

A few notes with the new plan. I realized last night that my Conway Scenic yard was a total F! I had scaled it incorrectly and left a track out that they use to hold layover train sets (I think thats the purpose anyways). I re-scaled my reference aerial image and tried to copy it as faithfully as possible. I had to change the shape of the 1:1 yard to be a little bit more flat for my shelf purposes but I am much happier with the current track plan/representation of it. In order to make this work better I figured I should move it down the shelf and flip spots with the weirs beach area. This does 2 things: straightens the ladder so the turnout config can be a better/more true representation of the real deal, and moves the purely scenic area (weirs beach/large bridge scene) onto the 'North' shelf, sort of cutting the hands on operational components into West shelf (conway scenic) and East shelf (industrial area).

I also tried to make a more organic feeling yard by adding a bit of a curve to the industrial yard...I also added another track to it. I am on the fence about this 4th track that leads to the complexes, but I like how this would leave the main open to an orbiting train in Lone Wolf mode, and keep the local from fouling. This also leaves another track that can be used as an interchange/siding for the main for a freight to sit until a higher priority freight or passenger passes. The local can keep its duties confined to the next 2 tracks. Again this area is totally freelanced aside from CPM so I am unsure if the track plan will really allow some hearty ops. I would like to model an interchange of sorts where a freight will bring in a long string of cars (inbound loads and MTs) onto track 2, drop cars for the local to spot, and pick up the outbound loads and MTs and continue on its way either West toward Conway or back into staging. Unfortunately I haven't really done a lot of research on Pan Am yards that may lend themselves to giving me a better idea of how crews may go about dealing with this sort of scenario.

I realize I introduced an S curve at the North ladder for the industrial yard....I am unsure if this will be enough to be a game killer..I could use a #10 here if that would help?



Let me know what you guys think about the changes and if you think I am overcrowding with 4 tracks in 3rd street now. Perhaps I will call it 4th street

Mike