Anybody know of N Scale traction motors

[Rich_S]

Leaving a traction motor outside in the rain is a bad thing unless the motor is junk anyhow. That's why I asked about an enginehouse setting. Traction motors must always be protected as they are very expensive. Locomotive wheelsets are also sensitive to the weather as you do not want the bearing surfaces on the wheel to get rusty and pitted. Even worn wheel sets are somehow protected to prevent rust on the bearing areas.
Really the only place you would see motors is in or near a locomotive shop. You will never see them being transported on a flatcar unless they are thoroughly covered .

Randy

Our traction motors / wheel sets arrive via covered gondola's to minimize exposure but remember, these things are always outdoors when installed on a locomotive, which operate in all types of weather. The reason the motors are stored indoors is more about access and less about exposure. We use overhead cranes to place the traction motor on the drop table for installation on the locomotive. The only thing wrong with the above picture, the air duct should have a cover on it to keep foreign material out of the motor.

[C855B]

... The only thing wrong with the above picture, the air duct should have a cover on it to keep foreign material out of the motor.

You might notice the one in the background that does indeed have the duct port covered.

[sd45elect2000]

Our traction motors / wheel sets arrive via covered gondola's to minimize exposure but remember, these things are always outdoors when installed on a locomotive, which operate in all types of weather. The reason the motors are stored indoors is more about access and less about exposure. We use overhead cranes to place the traction motor on the drop table for installation on the locomotive. The only thing wrong with the above picture, the air duct should have a cover on it to keep foreign material out of the motor.

A locomotive is a good cover for a traction motor. They get stored indoors so that when you install them they don't get a ground relay going out the shop door. If my shop was in the desert I would'nt have a problem leaving them outside, I can shift them around with a forklift.
 Try putting a motor in a locomotive that's been left in a snowbank for a month, might as well just ship it right out and pay another 6 grand to have it baked out instead of pissing away the labor to install it.

Randy Stahl
Superintendent of Locomotives
Providence and Worcester RR

[mandealco]

Have a good look at the one you are wanting to have made in N scale and compare it to photos.  There have been three major manufacturers of traction motors for the main builders.  EMD have their own, as does GE.  Alco's used GE electrical gear, and some of the early manufacturers of diesels used Westinghouse motors.  As electrical systems evolved, so too did traction motors, and model numbers reflect the ongoing development.  I'm not sure what external details are specific to what motors, but check photos.  One of the benefits of using GE motors in Alco's and other builder's products, was the rugged nature of the GE traction motors.

Cheers
Steve
NZ

[jpwisc]

I built an N Scale Traction motor for a fun project. I saw a truck like this retrieving one after an idler axle had been put in place. I know it's not 100% accurate (or 100% done) but it will add to the scene when all is said and done.

[nscaler711]

Not N but this guy had a website for awhile...
HO traction motors...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBksRIE-h4i_S510RjsyJSg

[Rich_S]

A locomotive is a good cover for a traction motor. They get stored indoors so that when you install them they don't get a ground relay going out the shop door. If my shop was in the desert I would'nt have a problem leaving them outside, I can shift them around with a forklift.
 Try putting a motor in a locomotive that's been left in a snowbank for a month, might as well just ship it right out and pay another 6 grand to have it baked out instead of pissing away the labor to install it.

Randy Stahl
Superintendent of Locomotives
Providence and Worcester RR

I constantly change brushes on locomotive traction motors where I can write my name in the condensation on the armature, without tripping a ground. If the traction motor blowers are working properly, they'll dry those motors out in no time.

Locomotive Electrician
Norfolk Southern Railway

[peteski]

I constantly change brushes on locomotive traction motors where I can write my name in the condensation on the armature, without tripping a ground. If the traction motor blowers are working properly, they'll dry those motors out in no time.

Locomotive Electrician
Norfolk Southern Railway

We sure have some real-life experts here.  But Rich, I'm confused by your post.

Are you saying that the reason for "constant" (more often than standard maintenance interval) brush replacement is condensation?  Plus, what does some condensation which can be easily dried up by the stream of air coming from a blower have to do with long time idle storage in cold and snowy conditions? 

[sd45elect2000]

I constantly change brushes on locomotive traction motors where I can write my name in the condensation on the armature, without tripping a ground. If the traction motor blowers are working properly, they'll dry those motors out in no time.

Locomotive Electrician
Norfolk Southern Railway

Agreed, I have also changed many traction motor brushes beginning in 1976.
 Condensation is a normal part of winter operation, when a cold locomotive or a sweaty locomotive is brought into the warm shop you will see water on the copper commutator and the string band. Its really a coin toss as when the water condenses on the armature the motor is essentially grounded and it is pointless to meggar or hypot the high voltage at that point. There is a window to troubleshoot a high voltage ground and once that window closes you will only be chasing your tail. In the wintertime I usually isolate the grounds with the high voltage outside.
Sometimes they do get a ground relay right out the shop door and my fix is to put the locomotive into full dynamic brake and let 925 amps in the motor fields dry the thing out.

I also successfully use the standstill dynamic brake technique to dry motors that otherwise are good but swallowed a bunch of snow in plow service. 
The point is that condensation doesn't usually have time to penetrate the motor to the point of no return. Leaving a motor out in the show or rain does.

Randy Stahl
Locomotive electrician:
Milwaukee road
Belt Ry Chicago
Wisconsin and Calumet
Wisconsin Central
Montreal Maine and Atlantic
Providence and Worcester

[Rich_S]

We sure have some real-life experts here.  But Rich, I'm confused by your post.

Are you saying that the reason for "constant" (more often than standard maintenance interval) brush replacement is condensation?  Plus, what does some condensation which can be easily dried up by the stream of air coming from a blower have to do with long time idle storage in cold and snowy conditions? 

No, I'm saying during regular maintenance certain times of the year the armatures become wet because of humidly / weather conditions. Now when you say cold snowy conditions, are you saying you are opening the brush covers and filling the motors up with snow?

It's not uncommon that locomotives in the winter sit outside dead and drained in windy snowy conditions, waiting on parts for repair. After these locomotives have sat outside for a week or more, do we have to change out the traction motors? NO. Water can cause a ground and drying out the locomotive will solve that problem, but most grounds are caused by deteriorated cabling or heat breaking down insulation. 

Do I recommend storing motors outside, NO I did not say that, but I reminded everyone that locomotives operate outside in all weather conditions. I've seen locomotives operate without any issues and the trucks were packed with snow.   

[Rich_S]

I also successfully use the standstill dynamic brake technique to dry motors that otherwise are good but swallowed a bunch of snow in plow service. 
The point is that condensation doesn't usually have time to penetrate the motor to the point of no return. Leaving a motor out in the show or rain does.

Randy, I agree and my main point was these things will take a fair amount of torture before failure. I was not recommending storing motors outside, but was commenting on they will take a fair amount of moisture, before causing problems.

On a side note, I see you worked for the Milwaukee Road, did you get to work on any of the Little Joes, boxcabs or Bi-Polars?

     

[sd45elect2000]

Oh God no, the electrics were gone long before I got there. I worked in West Milwaukee as well so I wasn't in electric territory.

 I've had locomotives sit outside for an entire winter and they were fine for service but, I've also had them ruined and did have to change some grounded motors. Another way traction motors are ruined outside is by absorbing water and then freezing it breaking up the insulation ESPECIALLY on the interpoles !!

Randy

[C855B]

Would it help you guys to know that the picture is from Cheyenne, which is pretty much in a desert?

[Rich_S]

Would it help you guys to know that the picture is from Cheyenne, which is pretty much in a desert?

Mike, I'm guessing the motors you photographed have already been tagged as bad, either bad wheels or a bad motor and that is why they were sitting outside. When they get enough of them, they'll be shipped to a rebuild shop.

[Rich_S]

Another way traction motors are ruined outside is by absorbing water and then freezing it breaking up the insulation ESPECIALLY on the interpoles !!

Randy

Yes, you have to love it when the ogone (some people call it a guru) pops and the water drains on the number 3 motor (number 4 on a six axle). Usually not an issue unless, you have a loose fitting top brush cover. Another issue we have from time to time is when someone forgets to kick the ears off the air compressor and it gets freeze damage. The good part for me is that is machinist work   

Not to get too long winded but the best High Voltage ground I've ever had was caused by a shorted ampmeter. Meggered the number two motor circuit and found a dead ground, no voltage and 10K resistance. Cut the motor and it was clear, meggered the carbody leads, grounded. Cut the carbody lead just below the #2 shunt, clear. Took the two ampmeter wires off the shunt, clear. Replaced the ampmeter and the HVG was gone.