Author Topic: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors  (Read 7989 times)

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sd45elect2000

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2015, 01:53:33 PM »
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Yes, you have to love it when the ogone (some people call it a guru) pops and the water drains on the number 3 motor (number 4 on a six axle). Usually not an issue unless, you have a loose fitting top brush cover. Another issue we have from time to time is when someone forgets to kick the ears off the air compressor and it gets freeze damage. The good part for me is that is machinist work  :trollface:  :D

Not to get too long winded but the best High Voltage ground I've ever had was caused by a shorted ampmeter. Meggered the number two motor circuit and found a dead ground, no voltage and 10K resistance. Cut the motor and it was clear, meggered the carbody leads, grounded. Cut the carbody lead just below the #2 shunt, clear. Took the two ampmeter wires off the shunt, clear. Replaced the ampmeter and the HVG was gone. :D

Good find that is. The gauge lights in the control stand sometimes drop down onto the loadmeter too causing a HVG.
Grounds are fun especially when they come and go or are high speed grounds. Sometimes you gotta ride the engine with some insulation strips and troubleshoot it on the road.

Randy

jnevis

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2015, 02:20:59 PM »
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Not an engine but I totally understand chasing grounds!!

We had a master caution panel that blew the flasher circuit.  The circuit box was inside the nose of the plane and was a PITA to replace.  We'd replace it and it worked fine on the ground.  The plane would fly and it wouldn't flash anymore.  We chased that damn thing for at least a month.  We rang every wire associated with it out and couldn't find anything.  Eventually we found that the wire bundle to the panel was grounding out on a screw for a different bundle.  The plane had gone through a mod to add a new radio up front and the screw for that bundle was to long for where it was in the cockpit.  When we rang out the wires the boxes were removed so it didn't touch the screw. :facepalm:  The only reason we found it was we finally checked the wires with the boxes installed by almost completely removing the rest of the cockpit.



The radio is the center left screen, and the Master Caution is above it
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jimmo

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2015, 02:39:59 PM »
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Not an engine but I totally understand chasing grounds!!

We had a master caution panel that blew the flasher circuit.  The circuit box was inside the nose of the plane and was a PITA to replace.  We'd replace it and it worked fine on the ground.  The plane would fly and it wouldn't flash anymore.  We chased that damn thing for at least a month.  We rang every wire associated with it out and couldn't find anything.  Eventually we found that the wire bundle to the panel was grounding out on a screw for a different bundle.  The plane had gone through a mod to add a new radio up front and the screw for that bundle was to long for where it was in the cockpit.  When we rang out the wires the boxes were removed so it didn't touch the screw. :facepalm:  The only reason we found it was we finally checked the wires with the boxes installed by almost completely removing the rest of the cockpit.



I tried to figure out what kind of plane it is but I came up blank. It does look like a military aircraft though. Am I close?

The radio is the center left screen, and the Master Caution is above it
James R. Will

jnevis

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2015, 02:46:30 PM »
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E-2C Hawkeye



This one is from Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron 120 (VAW-120) GreyHawks in Norfolk.
Can't model worth a darn, but can research like an SOB.

victor miranda

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2015, 02:51:02 PM »
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thread drift....

I was looking for engine throttles.  I see two.
it looks like a bus for the glass out front.

and the eyes on the yolk make me think military...

though I see no red covered switches....

so if the plane is armed, the pilots are not operating that equipment.


peteski

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2015, 02:54:54 PM »
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No, I'm saying during regular maintenance certain times of the year the armatures become wet because of humidly / weather conditions. Now when you say cold snowy conditions, are you saying you are opening the brush covers and filling the motors up with snow?

It's not uncommon that locomotives in the winter sit outside dead and drained in windy snowy conditions, waiting on parts for repair. After these locomotives have sat outside for a week or more, do we have to change out the traction motors? NO. Water can cause a ground and drying out the locomotive will solve that problem, but most grounds are caused by deteriorated cabling or heat breaking down insulation. 

Do I recommend storing motors outside, NO I did not say that, but I reminded everyone that locomotives operate outside in all weather conditions. I've seen locomotives operate without any issues and the trucks were packed with snow.

The only brushes I have ever changed were the N scale motor ones or on a Dremel tool.  Both operated indoors in dry environment.  I asked for a clarification of your post because I didn't quite understand it. With the additional posts now made, by you the real-maintenance guys, about the real traction motors  I now get the picture.
. . . 42 . . .

jnevis

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2015, 03:04:19 PM »
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thread drift....

I was looking for engine throttles.  I see two.
it looks like a bus for the glass out front.

and the eyes on the yolk make me think military...   

though I see no red covered switches....  Just the one next to the caution panel for bail out.  The fire extinguisher handles are just out of view above the windscreen.

so if the plane is armed, the pilots are not operating that equipment. We don't launch weapons, only weapons systems :D  Its used for airborne command control and intercept, telling Hornets where to go.

The disk on top is the radar antenna.
Can't model worth a darn, but can research like an SOB.

victor miranda

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2015, 03:39:23 PM »
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The disk on top is the radar antenna.

my comments were written before I saw the photo of the plane.

I am not all that familiar with aircraft cockpits.  civilian planes are less ornate.

I am not sure about some things, such as the yellow and black pull near the floor.

the distance between the seats had me thinking about wwII bombers like the b-25.
and not a small air-frame like the ov10...
I was thinking some kind of puddle jumper/commuter...

had not thought of the flying radar.

victor
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 03:42:53 PM by victor miranda »

sd45elect2000

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2015, 04:54:57 PM »
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The only brushes I have ever changed were the N scale motor ones or on a Dremel tool.  Both operated indoors in dry environment.  I asked for a clarification of your post because I didn't quite understand it. With the additional posts now made, by you the real-maintenance guys, about the real traction motors  I now get the picture.

Changing locomotive brushes is an all day affair. Lets do the SD-35.
First there are 12 brushes per motor times six = 60
The D32 main gen has 60 brushes for main propulsion and 4 for the D14 rotor.
8 brushes for the aux gen
8 brushes in the dynamic brake fans
1 load regulator brush
2 fuel pump brushes
2 turbo lube pump brushes
4 cab heater brushes

149 brushes total.

Did I miss any ?

dcutting

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2015, 05:16:55 PM »
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Are you guys interested in having me do a design for these? I could put something together in a snap.

-David
David Cutting

Rich_S

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2015, 05:31:00 PM »
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Changing locomotive brushes is an all day affair. Lets do the SD-35.
First there are 12 brushes per motor times six = 60
The D32 main gen has 60 brushes for main propulsion and 4 for the D14 rotor.
8 brushes for the aux gen
8 brushes in the dynamic brake fans
1 load regulator brush
2 fuel pump brushes
2 turbo lube pump brushes
4 cab heater brushes

149 brushes total.

Did I miss any ?
You forgot to carry the 1  :D There is 72 brushes on a SD35 just like the SD38's SD40's and SD45's (same for the dash 2 line) 
That is what is nice about the new Alternators on Dash 2 and newer. 8 Slip ring brushes replace 60 brushes that were on the Main Generator. The exception are the 80Mac's, they have 10. For some unknown reason to me, the Main Stator top slip rings have 4 brushes, but the bottom only has 2. The Companion slip rings only have 2 on top and 2 on the bottom.

On the dash 2's, it's a mixed bag for the Aux Gen. You have to look and see what VR card is installed. If you have a VR 10, then 8 brushes for the Aux Gen, if you have a VR 11 through 14 you have a A/C Aux Gen. Same with the fuel pump and Turbo lube pump, they could be DC or AC.

SD60's and above plus the rebuilds now have HVAC's so only the 38's and 40's have cab heaters and some of them have been upgraded with AC motors.

EMD did take a step backwards with the 60's motors. You have 4 brushes per holder or 16 brushes per motor or 96 brushes per locomotive.

All of the above is only for EMD locomotives, when you start talking GE locomotives you open a different can of worms.

Dash 9's have 12 brushes on the slip rings and EVO's have 16.
Both Dash 9's and DC EVO's have 3 brushes per holder and 4 holders per traction motor for a total of 12 brushes per motor.
The Grid blowers have 4 brushes per blower with DC units having 2 grid blowers and AC units having 3 grid blowers.
GE's have A/C fuel pumps and do not have turbo lube pumps.
GE's have HVAC's.

I'm probably forgetting something, but until all of the DC locomotives are retired, the carbon brush manufactures will be in business for some time to come  :D  And that class is just your first day, just kidding folks but at least I hope everyone has a better idea of what goes on under the hood of a locomotive.

Rich_S

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2015, 05:33:19 PM »
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Are you guys interested in having me do a design for these? I could put something together in a snap.

-David

David, Are you thinking just the motor or motor and wheel set? Could you make the motor to accept a user supplied wheel set?


peteski

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2015, 05:40:31 PM »
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Looks like you guys brushed everybody up on the the brush situation on 1:1 locos!

To continue this slightly OT diversion, where does all the carbon dust go insode those motors and how often do these brushes need replacing?
. . . 42 . . .

sd45elect2000

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2015, 05:43:19 PM »
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David, Are you thinking just the motor or motor and wheel set? Could you make the motor to accept a user supplied wheel set?
I'd rather the motors not have a wheelset as well, be the ultimate cool if the support caps and gearcases came off !!


Randy

sd45elect2000

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Re: Anybody know of N Scale traction motors
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2015, 05:46:00 PM »
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Looks like you guys brushed everybody up on the the brush situation on 1:1 locos!

To continue this slightly OT diversion, where does all the carbon dust go insode those motors and how often do these brushes need replacing?

We usually went through the brushes annually.