A shelf layout emerging from a turnout

[ednadolski]

A lot of spiking for sure!   Must feel good to be finished with that.  It's already looking great, and will only get better as you get thru the painting & weathering stages.

Ed

[svedblen]

A short progress report.

I have started to paint the rails. But running out of the old and proven Floquil Grimy Black, and since no more of that is to be had, I had to find a suitable substitute. I went for Vallejo acrylic Model Color, #168 Black grey. A little darker than the grimy black perhaps, but it will do fine.

This is just a first step. Dirt and rust will follow so the unpainted spots, which can be seen in the picture, do not matter at this point. Also, there is paint on the rail tops which I will remove later.

[chicken45]

This is all terrific. Thanks!

[svedblen]

@chicken45, thanks 

[svedblen]

I have got myself a loco for the layout. It was our own @ednadolski  that offered to sell me an undecorated Atlas O SD-40. Although he had made such an outstanding job with his GP9 he seemed to rather devote his future time to his Tehachapi N scale layout. Anyway, I took the opportunity to get an engine at a nice price and here it is, devoid of all possible detailing:



Ed had converted the wheels of the SD-40 to P48 standards, meaning the wheel profile is prototypical. That was good for me, since that looks better and I want it that way, but also since my (only) turnout has flangeways etc that are more P48 than standard O. The loco axle length had also been adjusted to a more narrow and prototypical track gauge. This was not equally good for me, since my track gauge is standard O.  Don't ask why. It's just is.  This meant my new loco would not run on my track, unless I did something about the wheels, or rather their spacing.

So I have done some experimenting with one of the wheel sets. The conventional O scale gauge is 60 scale inches, which equals 1.25" or 31.75 mm but Proto:48 uses the prototypically accurate 56.5 scale inches which is 1,17" or 29.90 mm. That is not a very large difference, and the loco, as arrived, could actually sit tight on my track. It even powers up, and makes all sorts of sounds. But when I throttle up it immediatelly derails.

Since we are only talking about 2 mm, I simply separated the wheels on one of the axles by that amount. The axle is a little to short for that and I am not sure that the wheels will stay put in the long run. However, there want be much stress on the wheels on this little layout, and it might be enough to secure the wheels with a little Loctite. Another solution would be to buy new axles from NWSL. Fitting axles seems to be readily available for $1.25 each, so that is might be worth the trouble. The picture below shows separated wheels on the axle uppermost in the picture. You can see that the wheels sit tighter on the lower axle, P48 style.



Another problem is that although the gearbox of the truck is originally done for the longer axle, the original wheels were much wider. With the narrower wheels separated further apart there is a risk that the wheel with the gear slides that far out so that the gears lose contact with each other. To fix that problem I inserted a spacer between the the opposite wheel and the gearbox. The next picture shows the left wheel, with the gears, at its outmost position. It still contacts the rest of the gear assemby, even if it is a close call.



The non-geared wheel is electrically isolated from the axle, and uses a sprung pin sitting in the gear box to make electrical contact with the motor. You can see the pin in the lower right of this photo.



If the isolated wheel slides to far out from the gearbox, the pin will no longer contact the back of the wheel, and the electrical pickup is broken. To avoid that I put a spacer on the geared wheel side also. So now the isolated wheel cannot go any further out than this picture shows.



Even if I decide to buy new axles, I will probably start by just separating the wheels on the existing axles. Just to be able to see the loco run.

[ednadolski]

Perhaps it is possible to put the spacer between the side gear and the wheel?   That would help keep it more in line with the rest of the gears.

One other thought - be careful too about using too thick of a spacer.   You want to keep a little side play in each axle so that the unit can still track around curves.   Your curves look pretty broad so that should not really be much of a concern.

Looks like there should still be enough room to relocate the sideframes further inboard, if you wish to do that for appearances.

Ed

[svedblen]

Perhaps it is possible to put the spacer between the side gear and the wheel?   That would help keep it more in line with the rest of the gears.

Good point, Ed. I'll try that. I have actually orded new axles from NWSL, along with /115 thread wheels to the two second hoppers, so I'll probably wait for them to arrive before I try that. Otherwise all wheels have been relocated, and the loco has run back and further on the layout That did reveal one spot where the rails sat a little tight and need to be fixed .

There is also some noise from somewhere in the drive train. I don't know if it is my messing around which have caused that. Perhaps getting the gears more in line by moving the spacer will fix it. Or not. We'll see.

One other thought - be careful too about using too thick of a spacer.   You want to keep a little side play in each axle so that the unit can still track around curves.   Your curves look pretty broad so that should not really be much of a concern.

Yes my curves are broad, but the spacers are 0.75 mm each, which is less than what each wheel was moved outwards, so that should not be a problem anyway.

Looks like there should still be enough room to relocate the sideframes further inboard, if you wish to do that for appearances.

Yes, I noticed the large "void" between the wheels and the sideframes   Another thing to have a look at. Thanks.

[nscaler711]

Nice what's it going to be painted?
(crosses fingers for Santa Fe)

Wonder if I can convert my Williams P42s to two rail... Anyone know? Or should I say fudge it?

[ednadolski]

Wonder if I can convert my Williams P42s to two rail... Anyone know? Or should I say fudge it?

I've heard of 3-rail to 2-rail conversions being done.  Of course it is a non-trivial effort.  If you are serious, a good starting point is some of the online O scale forums.

Ed

[ednadolski]

There is also some noise from somewhere in the drive train. I don't know if it is my messing around which have caused that. Perhaps getting the gears more in line by moving the spacer will fix it. Or not. We'll see.

If the gears are out of line or true I could see that contributing to a 'buzz'.   I would try putting the unit up on blocks and letting the wheels spin freely, to see if that can help pinpoint anything.  Another option might be to pop in the factory wheelsets to see if those seem any better.

A little lube on the internal gears might help, but I would avoid putting anything on those side gears -- it will only attract and retain grime & debris.

Side note: With a heavy O scale engine, how well is that sound-absorption roadbed working out to reduce noise & vibrations?

Ed

[svedblen]

Nice what's it going to be painted?
(crosses fingers for Santa Fe)

Thanks. Ed was kind enought to include a Microscale BNSF decal set http://www.internettrains.com/merchant2/graphics/00000001/MSI-48-632.jpg in the deal so who knows, your finger crossing migth work. But don't expect it to happen very soon  Afterthought: But BNSF is perhaps not "Santa Feish" enough for your taste

I would try putting the unit up on blocks and letting the wheels spin freely, to see if that can help pinpoint anything.  Another option might be to pop in the factory wheelsets to see if those seem any better.

Yeah, I've been thinking along those lines myself.

Side note: With a heavy O scale engine, how well is that sound-absorption roadbed working out to reduce noise & vibrations?

I cannot really tell. I have never run an O scale engine before, so I do not know what's normal, and I do not have any stretch of track without the bitumen to compare with. I have a feeling that the bitumen helps,but I am not sure. What I do think is that the persons saying that using extruded foam for baseboard material is no good from a noise point of view actually have a point. I have the impression the foam acts like some kind of soundboard. Yesterday I had the layout shelf (foam in a wooden frame) down on the top of a set of cupboards for easy reach, but today I put it it up on its brackets, and the loco ran quiter. I think the soundboard effect of the foam was lessened when there was no solid surface below it, just the frame around it. Anyway, I still think the bitumen helps, but I cannot swear by it.

[ednadolski]

Yes I think the larger the surface the more efficiently it can radiate sound into the surrounding air, and rigid materials (like plywood and extruded foam) are quite efficient sound transmitters too .  With sound, efficiency == louder since the energy is not absorbed in the transmitting material.  That was one of the big issues with the P:48 #6 test turnout that I built a while back:  I glued the ties straight onto the balsa wood base, and it is very good at transmitting sound - even more so when glued onto a foamboard base.   You can really hear (and feel) the difference as the loco moves over the turnout and onto a section of track that I built with a cork layer.  Of course O scale is inherently noisy even with cork, so I think your approach with the bitumen is probably about as good as it gets.  Just a thought, perhaps it would further help to add a layer of the bitumen onto the underside of the shelf... that's basically the same way the material would be used to absorb sound in an automotive application.

Ed

[svedblen]

Just a thought, perhaps it would further help to add a layer of the bitumen onto the underside of the shelf...

Pro: Noise is probably reduced, as you say.
Con: Bitumen is HEAVY and I wanted a ligtweight shelf that could be easily taken down when I was working on it.
Con: The bitumen mats will ruin the look of my nice shelf underside. This is in a furnished room.
Pro: Intriguing idea. Can I live without ever testing it 

[svedblen]

I swapped in the original "fat" wheels, and no unexpected noise anymore  So it was probably one of the gears that was not that well aligned. Hopefully that will be solved by Ed's tip on putting the spacer outside the gear (which I will not do until I get the longer axles).

[svedblen]

Progress is actually made on the layout, although you might think otherwise. What I am doing is weathering the track. I have started with the back of the rails, i.e. the side facing the backdrop. Pointless some might say, but I do not agree. An occasional future picture might be taken in an angle revealing that side of the rails. And also, I just feel happier knowing the weathering is complete. But to be on the safe side I do the back first, which will later give me no choice but doing the other side (the front) also 

What I do is brush on a coat of dirt colored paint, and while the paint is still wet I add weathering powders. First a light rust colored powder and then some darker rust. I apply it generously which creates a texture which in my eyes looks quite realistic.

Next I vacuum the excess powder, which will otherwise uncontrollably spread all over the roadbed. This is followed by a light dusting of dark earth and black powder, applied with a large soft brush. And it all comes out like this.