Why can't manufacturers just get it right?

[Denver Road Doug]

I think that the biggest "Whyyyy" isn't from a manufacturer that has had to draw a line in the sand and pick an option. (so your example of stock loco versus shopped loco)

I think they come from the ones where there really aren't options and a manufacturer just doesn't pay attention to details or take the time to do it right.   Think:
-sight glass in a GP38-2.
-the aforementioned door rails in the wrong place on a boxcar...that's pretty bad, and I can't imagine being in this business and not catching that.   You can't find a half dozen vested parties willing to sign an NDA to take a gander before going to production?
-Completely leaving off the cons stencils on a modern RD-4 coal hopper. (a car that was already done/decorated in HO.  I get that copying HO decoration is risky in itself, but geez at least take a peek)
-Leaving off the rotary flag (white stripe) from a modern RD-4 coal hopper. (again, deco already gift-wrapped for this scheme)
-A company that makes trucks as a major part of their product line, putting the wrong trucks on a $35 car, when they possess the correct trucks in their catalog.
-Oh, and you think I'm being nitpicky because the truck has a strut in the wrong place....nope, I'm talking about 2-axles versus 3-axles.
-Colors that weren't derived from paint chips, bad web photos, kids with crayons, color blind mammals, or anything approaching reality...  (not talking subtle shades or "fading" arguments...I mean complete wrong color.)
-...and then never fixing the mistake.   I get it that sometimes factories don't interpret things correctly, or someone makes a mistake building a spec.  But not fixing it is just a major "whyyyyyy".  (mostly referring to decoration here....I get it that fixing tooling is not easily or cheaply done)

The above items aren't about research issues or production costs....they're about being lazy.

[wcfn100]

-the aforementioned door rails in the wrong place on a boxcar...that's pretty bad, and I can't imagine being in this business and not catching that.   You can't find a half dozen vested parties willing to sign an NDA to take a gander before going to production?

That's definitely part of the frustration.  It only took one look at the model photo to see the the track was off, same for the wrong roof on the PS Exactrail cars.  Thankfully in both cases the problem was fixed.  There have also been a couple instances of incorrect artwork that I've been able to get corrected before production that only took a single look which is why I hate when people say it only pre-production.  Without saying something, that pre-production could very well become production.

There's definitely a knowledge base out there that could prevent simple mistakes from happening.  But it would seem that some manufacturers just insist that they know better than people who have been researching and studying some of these subjects for years.

Jason

[thomasjmdavis]

...and then never fixing the mistake.   I get it that sometimes factories don't interpret things correctly, or someone makes a mistake building a spec.  But not fixing it is just a major "whyyyyyy".

Where are we, 35 years and counting, for a diner that is backwards?
And I was 40 years old before I figured out that ATSF never actually painted a stock car green (N scale model of an HO model of an O27 model, or something like that).

Most of the little stuff doesn't bother me- I figure if I don't have time to build it myself, I am not going to worry too much on the placement of a horn, or the specific size of a bathroom window.  But if you are going to sell me an ACL baggage car, more or less force me to pre-order it, and put out all manner of print graphics where you had the graphic artist carefully select the correct ink for ACL purple, you might just take out a minute to have someone check that the ones you are making to sell for $40+ aren't painted blue.... and not impressed with their UP yellow either.

Now, on the other hand, MT brings out a pretty accurate rendition of an Erie baggage car, with a street price under $25. Great car- I really feel like I get my money's worth.  Likewise the few Rapido cars I have- more expensive, but if I tried to bring some of my other cars up to the same level of detail, I'd spend more on parts than the cost of the car. 

I've come to appreciate manufacturers that are willing to talk to us well before a product is produced.  We have a much better idea of the product that will be coming out, and they have an idea of our expectations.  While some of the commentary might be negative ("how come you are producing THAT instead of what IIIIII want???" or another controversy over board spacing or trucks or brake wheel position).  But from our point of view, we have a pretty good idea of what we are getting and any compromise we are going to have to live with, and from the manufacturers' point of view, it has to be better to know in the planning stages what the customers really want, or what some may find unacceptable BEFORE making the investment to manufacture.

I think the whole pre-order culture is a lot of the problem.  In the days when I could see a model before I bought it, I could judge its relative quality and value by looking at it in the store.  But nowadays, often as not, I have to buy it before it is made- so I am trusting the manufacturer to get it right.  And given the prices nowadays, I am not likely to be happy with "almost" right.  I won't be pre-ordering any more cars from the company that sold me a blue ACL car.  May be doing so for future MT passenger car releases, although I have noted that those cars are available from most dealers, and they continue to turn out batches on a regular basis (which I do appreciate).

Mechanical issues?  I spoiled myself 35+ years ago buying a Kato made Con Cor PA.  It still runs (ok, it is almost as loud as a real PA, but not many real PAs made it past 35 years).  My fleet is mostly Atlas and Kato.  They all worked out of the box- all the maintenance I've needed is a bit of lube now and then.

Tom D

[peteski]

W
Mechanical issues?  I spoiled myself 35+ years ago buying a Kato made Con Cor PA.  It still runs (ok, it is almost as loud as a real PA, but not many real PAs made it past 35 years).  My fleet is mostly Atlas and Kato.  They all worked out of the box- all the maintenance I've needed is a bit of lube now and then.

Tom D

Exactly!  You are proving my point. Kato and Atlas (made by Kato, or Kato-clones) use well-designed mechanisms I was talking about.

[thomasjmdavis]

Peteski, et al,

My personal observation is that the folks who get the drives right also go to the trouble to get most of the details right.  If I am in a nitpicking mood, I would complain that the steps are too thick on a Kato F unit, or that Atlas doesn't paint torpedo tube GP units in the "correct" roads (which is to say, the ones I want) while making torpedo tube models in the "wrong" roads (the ones I want without).  And Kato should make those modified late F3 shells available pre-painted for ATSF (which reminds me I need to check their parts page in case they have and I did not notice), so I can update my F3s.

I am getting a bit ticked off with the supposed "high end" (or at least high priced) manufacturers who don't distinguish between dulux gold (which is "golden yellow") and "imitation" gold (which is gold paint) and gold leaf, when painting a car into a 1950a paint scheme, or like I said earlier, color correcting to get ACL purple for their ads, but not color correcting the paint at the factory.

Another major way to get my business- tell me what the prototype for the model is.  Do NOT announce an new car as "ATSF" when it is really CB&Q with ATSF lettering (as was true of another baggage car 15 years ago- I haven't pre=ordered anything from that company since).  Announce it as a CB&Q car and let me be the judge on whether it is "close enough" (the Kato CB&Q early Budd coach and Budd baggage are both "close enough" for me, and I am trying to figure out the best was to add some kitchen windows to their diners).

And I do appreciate the manufacturers willing to share their mock ups and test shells and whatnot on this and other forums- again, let's us know what to expect before we start putting down our hard earned money to pay for it.

[Rossford Yard]

Only slightly related, I guess, but I find myself thinking about Con Cor, who for years brought out state of the art stuff (which wasn't great) in early N scale, generally stagnating quality wise, and then, just before the old man's retirement, come out with some great specialty trains, like the Zephyrs.

We do tend to classify mfgs., and suspect they usually stay the same, or continually get better, but there are exceptions, and there are missteps, and some things do change over the years.

[Missaberoad]

And Kato should make those modified late F3 shells available pre-painted for ATSF (which reminds me I need to check their parts page in case they have and I did not notice), so I can update my F3s.

http://www.katousa.com/N/F3/176-1121.jpg

Like so, or are you looking for the even later version with low profile fans?

[peteski]

I am getting a bit ticked off with the supposed "high end" (or at least high priced) manufacturers who don't distinguish between dulux gold (which is "golden yellow") and "imitation" gold (which is gold paint) and gold leaf, when painting a car into a 1950a paint scheme, or like I said earlier, color correcting to get ACL purple for their ads, but not color correcting the paint at the factory.

Are you sure?  Imitation gold is not a metallic gold color (or gold paint as you put it) - it is a non-metallic light brown color which has a hue similar to metallic gold paint. At least the B&M imitation gold I am familiar with is a non-metallic color.  Gold leaf is a shiny mottled metallic gold color (as it was made from real gold leaf adhered to the car's surface).

As far as getting the colors right is a very inexact science.  Do you use official paint chips, faded color or scale color?  You won't make everybody happy either way.  What would be nice if all manufacturers decided which shade to use so models from various manufacturers would match. Especially passenger trains.

[thomasjmdavis]

Ryan,

I am very well aware that Kato made a limited number of modified F3s- from the looks of it, I might still be able to buy complete locos direct from Kato.  I own several.  What I keep looking for is a release of the body shell from their parts department- so that I could update my earlier purchased F3s (what I think would be called "phase 1" and "phase 2") for my time frame.  They stock plenty of F3 and F7 shells, just not those particular ATSF modified shells- at least not to date.

[coosvalley]

  It only took one look at the model photo to see the the track was off, same for the wrong roof on the PS Exactrail cars.  Thankfully in both cases the problem was fixed. 
Jason

Two things.....
1. Was the TLT boxcar ever fixed?.I know they said they were going to, but I have never seen a "fixed" version...Are they out there?

2. Last spring(2014) I ordered the ExactRail PS car, and it DID NOT come with the correct roof, I had to get one separately....I was under the impression it was supposed to come with the correct roof, but alas, it did not...

[bbussey]

Two things.....
1. Was the TLT boxcar ever fixed?.I know they said they were going to, but I have never seen a "fixed" version...Are they out there?

2. Last spring(2014) I ordered the ExactRail PS car, and it DID NOT come with the correct roof, I had to get one separately....I was under the impression it was supposed to come with the correct roof, but alas, it did not...

1.  No.

2.  Replacement roofs were available free of charge at the time the Southern P-S cars were released.  The remain available now from ExactRail as a stand-alone part for a nominal fee.

[coosvalley]

1.  No.

2.  Replacement roofs were available free of charge at the time the Southern P-S cars were released.  The remain available now from ExactRail as a stand-alone part for a nominal fee.

Thanks for the clarification...I figured they would have at least come with the car,(since they were wrong) but nope.The fee was nominal.(I just looked, they are now 10.95$ each!--not exactly "nominal", ) However, since I had to place another order, shipping could have been saved if they mentioned they were no longer including the roof
This was not the worst thing to ever happen, but still....Including the roof would have kept me coming back to ER and their "direct sales only"...Now, I feel like my money would be better spent elsewhere in the future....I will say this though, I think the cars are really well done...

[bbussey]

Actually, it would be best to verify with ExactRail if the cars still in stock have the proper roof. It's possible they either swapped out the roof or include the proper roof with the car. My recollection is from when the model was first introduced with the roof corrected after the fact.

[wcfn100]

Okay, I thought for some reason the second run got fixed.  Was there even a second run?  The TLT cars are out of my Era so I obviously wasn't paying very good attention.


Jason

[wcfn100]

Well at least I'm not losing my mind.

PGE from the second run with the corrected door track.





Jason