Centralia & Rapido passenger car prototypes

[sirenwerks]

I'm at a loss without my reference books, which are all packed away.  I see the GN and NP releases by these companies and wonder, are they prototypical?  Can anyone tell me what the prototypes are for these cars and, if anyone knows specifically, which GN and NP cars are not foobs?

[nkalanaga]

I don't know what all they have released, but the only ones I KNOW are usable for the GN and NP are the C&NW 56-seat coaches, which both roads bought secondhand in the 60s.  Even there, you have to be careful of the colors, as the GN Big Sky Blue in particular is far too dark, and looks hideous.  If you plan on painting your own you should be good.

[Puddington]

To date our N scale cars are based on Canadian National Railway plans and are therefore, by definition, foobies for the Great Northern RR. (albeit handsome ones.... )

I agree on the BSB comment; many mfg's have an issue with getting it right. We've pretty much stuck with Empire Builder colours for our N scale GN stuff.... says the guy building a BSB consist....

[nkalanaga]

For Puddington, and any manufacturer interested, the GNRHS has a sheet of color samples, which they would probably be happy to send you, if it got accurate models.  Big Sky Blue is listed as "Dulux 88-AC 228", if that is an exact color, and not just an order number.  The dark gray that was used for BSB scheme roofs is "Dulux 88-AC 229", and white is plain white.

From the same chart, the Empire Builder colors were "Dulux 83-4558" for Pullman Green and "Dulux 83-35617" for Omaha Orange.  Why they called it Omaha Orange I've never heard, as that sounds more like something the UP would use.

[Nato]

              The Centralia PS Boat Tailed Observation Lounge Car is a close match to 1947 GN PS Empire Builder cars, these cars were later rebuilt into "Coulie" series cars with more bedrooms and a smaller lounge area. The Centralia cars are an almost exact match for the NP observation cars and are detailed as such, but the two tone green on the model, or the earlier green pine tree scheme with a car name are both off color wise.

[nkalanaga]

Nato:  Tha's good to know, although neither car was in use (as built) by the BN merger, so wouldn't be any use to me.   That's probably why I never noticed them...

[Puddington]

We have those references; we have a small library of many references for colour... yet; despite that, plus checking samples and doing draw downs etc.... occasionally you get a colour that makes you say "HUH"?????? (Our infamous Illinois Central brown and orange debacle of a half a dozen years ago....) Sometime the factory can't get the colour, tone, hue (whatever) right and takes a chance... sometime they swear they followed the colour chip but clearly didn't and sometime they just "punt the ball"..... not often but.....

BSB shouldn't be tough but it's one of the most commonly poorly printed railway colours... almost always too dark and too red/purple.

There will almost always be arguments about "fine details" of colour - we all see colour differently, but when BSB looks like VIA blue....um...not so much! 

[sirenwerks]

              The Centralia PS Boat Tailed Observation Lounge Car is a close match to 1947 GN PS Empire Builder cars, these cars were later rebuilt into "Coulie" series cars with more bedrooms and a smaller lounge area. The Centralia cars are an almost exact match for the NP observation cars and are detailed as such, but the two tone green on the model, or the earlier green pine tree scheme with a car name are both off color wise.

Aren't the Con Cor obs a match for the EB cars as well?  Would this mean Centralia replicated the same car as the Con Cor model, or the Con Cor model represents the Coulie cars?

Also, the NP cars exact match for NPs cars throughout their life? Or for a specific period like the GN cars?

[nickelplate759]

The ConCor observation is based on the Mid-Century (domeless!) Empire Builder.

The Centralia observation (same prototype as Kato) isn't right for the Empire Builder, but it's close.

Fred Kleinsorge's web site has the details:  http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/protopass5.htm

George

[sirenwerks]

I've looked over Fred's site (1st place I went, actually, before posting). It doesn't cover the Centralia or Rapido cars. 

[Ike the BN Freak]

We have those references; we have a small library of many references for colour... yet; despite that, plus checking samples and doing draw downs etc.... occasionally you get a colour that makes you say "HUH"?????? (Our infamous Illinois Central brown and orange debacle of a half a dozen years ago....) Sometime the factory can't get the colour, tone, hue (whatever) right and takes a chance... sometime they swear they followed the colour chip but clearly didn't and sometime they just "punt the ball"..... not often but.....

BSB shouldn't be tough but it's one of the most commonly poorly printed railway colours... almost always too dark and too red/purple.

There will almost always be arguments about "fine details" of colour - we all see colour differently, but when BSB looks like VIA blue....um...not so much! 

I think something happened with the BN executive cars. Looks as if when doing the paint, they did the green before the cream.

[nickelplate759]

I've looked over Fred's site (1st place I went, actually, before posting). It doesn't cover the Centralia or Rapido cars.

Ooh, you're right, sorry! 

[nkalanaga]

The CC obs is the GN's "Mountain" series.  They were replaced on the Empire Builder in 1955(?) when the Great Dome Lounge cars were added.  No need for two lounges, so the Coulee series, rebuilt from the 1947 obs, replaced them. 

The Mountain cars came through Pasco, one at a time, on the eastbound Amtrak Empire Builder soon after Amtrak took over.  That was the only time I ever saw a revenue observation car on a passenger train, and as far as I know, they were deadheading to who-knows-where for disposal.

And, yes, BSB seems especially hard for manufacturers to match.  On the other hand, for freight cars in the early BN era, it weathered to so many shades that it isn't hard to find something useful!  That doesn't work as well for passenger cars, which really should be fairly close to each other.

[SP-Wolf]

The Centralia observation is a SP Lark 4-1-1 café/observation numbers 400/401

As was stated earlier - same as the Kato car.

Regards,
Wolf

[jmlaboda]

The Centralia observation is a SP Lark 4-1-1 café/observation numbers 400/401

SP 400 and SP 401 along with Pullman cars American Milemaster and Muskingum River, which replaced 400 and 401 after they were destroyed in 1942 being lettered as SP 400 and 401 but transferred to SP in 1948 becoming SP 9500 and 9501 in 1949,  and NYC 10650 Genesee River, 10651 Maumee River and 10652 Wabash River, which were sold to the B&O as 7510 - 7512 in 1956.  As SP 9500 and 9501 both were rebuilt with blunt ends in 1956, with 9500 becoming EMD test car ET800 around 1965 and later being sold to Conrail to become CR 22, now on Depew Lancaster & Western.  NYC/B&O Maumee River is now owned by Pinsly RR, residing on the Florida Central.