New brass Milwaukee Bipolar EP-2 clinic- part 2

[Sokramiketes]

On the Railroad Fair scheme variations, There is a documented date of August 1949 for the switch of passenger car roofs from gray to black.  That is a likely time for the switch on this scheme as well.  And while the lettering on these 1947-1951 era schemes is "gold", the correct color is dulux gold.  Effectively on a model its more rich yellow than gold leaf. 

[u18b]

On the Railroad Fair scheme variations, There is a documented date of August 1949 for the switch of passenger car roofs from gray to black.  That is a likely time for the switch on this scheme as well.  And while the lettering on these 1947-1951 era schemes is "gold", the correct color is dulux gold.  Effectively on a model its more rich yellow than gold leaf.

EDIT- I misunderstood.

Might be true for the fleet, but not the locomotive.
Because this locomotive was at the Chicago Railroad Fair which opened July 20, 1948.
So the Railroad Fair Scheme was painted on E3 probably in May or June of 48.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Railroad_Fair

Milwaukee Road also previewed the Skytop car there as well.
So they had at least one car painted in the new scheme that summer.

[Sokramiketes]

Might be true for the fleet, but not the locomotive.
Because this locomotive was at the Chicago Railroad Fair which opened July 20, 1948.
So the Railroad Fair Scheme was painted on E3 probably in May or June of 48.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Railroad_Fair

Milwaukee Road also previewed the Skytop car there as well.
So they had at least one car painted in the new scheme that summer.

Correct, the scheme started to be applied in 1947, with gray roofs.  Matching what we see on the 1948 painted E3.  The switch to black roofs was August 1949, with the same overall scheme on the sides.  This is what you show in your photo of E2 labeled "Black Variation".

[Chris333]

Don't stop till you have one of each flavor.

[u18b]

OK.  Let’s talk horn placement.   As Pete said, if I cannot find a photo with a
horn, I have to guess.  All info below is my detective work.  A new photo can always pop up that shows something different.

Almost all black had whistles.    I am now 99% sure the whistle is under that dome.  Located on both ends right in front of the cab.



All black EP-2s had whistles only except one,   #E-3- which had both.

You can clearly see both on the B end (B is for “busy” with all the coils).



But what about the A end?   I only discovered it when I went back and looked knowing WHERE to look.

It is on the right side of the A cab.  Hard to see in this b&w.



I knew where to look because of the Railroad Fair loco.
You can clearly see it in this color shot mounted on the A cab roof.



So what do I do with the experimental scheme E-1?   I can see no horn in the four shots I found.

It’s not on the A nose or A hood.


This image is pixelated and dark, but I don’t see a horn anywhere.


This shot is clearer and I see no horn on the A hood or right cab roof, and none on the B hood roof either.




However, there is SOMETHING on the A hood where a horn COULD be (removed for maintenance/repair?).



The next step is to move forward in time.   Later, there came to be two standard horn placements.




Now look at this shot of E1 in the later cigar scheme.   There is clearly a horn on the A hood in the spot where that possible mount was seen.  Also, there is no discernible horn on the B end- on the hood nor on the nose near the headlight.
Did some EP-2s only have ONE horn?    Does not seem like good practice, but yes,  E-1 may be one such example.  (unless it is on the infamous left side)



So…. Since I cannot imagine E-1 without a whistle or a horn, I chose to mount one on the A hood where I see that nub (where I KNOW one will be in the future) even though I have no photo proof.

[u18b]

Correct, the scheme started to be applied in 1947, with gray roofs.  Matching what we see on the 1948 painted E3.  The switch to black roofs was August 1949, with the same overall scheme on the sides.  This is what you show in your photo of E2 labeled "Black Variation".

Oh, thanks!
I misunderstood you.

Yes, the change to black roof in 49 would date the EP-2 number E-2.   It must have been the last one painted in the Railroad Fair scheme.   Good catch.
Thanks.

[u18b]

Don't stop till you have one of each flavor.

That's the overall plan!

I may not capture EVERY color variation, but will get most.

It's sort of a shame to paint this new 2000 version Kumata brass EP-2 into the boring black scheme.  So all of them will be colorful Hiawatha locos.

However, I do have an old NJ Custom Brass EP-2 that I will convert and paint for the World's Fair scheme with silver accents.

[u18b]

Here is my A unit and horn placement.
Also note that the headlight is moved back and redesigned.
A hard process that was covered earlier in this thread.

[u18b]

Paint Research

I only have three usable photos at present and here are some observations.










Just for a comparison, the OMI HO scale brass model is pretty good.    The only errors I see are: horns painted silver located beside the headlight,  the upper roof grab is black and not located in the silver stripe.  Also, the loop at the frame under that should be black as well as the jacking pads.  Everything below the frame is black.

[u18b]

Here is a stock shell.   A few parts need to be removed or replaced.



The upper grabs on the nose are too high with reference to the divider in the window (see prototype above).  The edge of the grabs will obstruct the sliver stripe.   I’ll need to remove these, drill new holes and lower them.



Masking will be a problem because of a few grabirons so I removed them.  The silver stripe will move through these.



Now we run into a problem.   Thankfully, there are some decals for this paint scheme.   So let’s take some scissors and cut out the curved side/nose stripe and see how it looks.



The decals are wrong!  The crook is going in the wrong direction.  I’m going to have to draw my own or see if I can kitbash these by cutting the crook off and turning it.

[u18b]

Here is an interesting update.
This is why I needed help with Japanese in a request on another thread.

I have discovered a new EP-2 model.   Yes, another one!
@spookshow are you listening?

A few days ago, I was doing research on the EP-2 and surfed to a link on a Japanese auction site.
Using translation helpers, I learned a few things, but not all I wanted.   I relied mostly on my eyes.
And I was amazed.

The auction occurred in 2022. 
Study the photos below.

Clearly this is N scale.
It has a LOT of similarities to the 2000 run that Kumata did- which has been the subject of this very thorough thread.
But there are some differences!

Same details on the hood roof
same all geared 4-axle power trucks (the NJ model only has 2 geared axles)
sand boxes present- check.
etc.

But.... look at the headlight.  It is solid.  In fact, it looks like the old NJ casting.   The 2000 run models have an open headlight allowing for operating lights.

Also look at the pantographs.   This model is missing the side stabilizers that are present on the 2000 model.

So.... this model looks like a hybrid.   Mostly new, with a little old.

So what is it's story?   I have no idea.
Ryoichi Fukushima from this board has graciously agree to contact the seller.  I would have loved to have purchased one of these, but it is long gone.   But I'm hoping the seller remembers some details about it.

I'll report anything I learn.

If I had to make a wild guess - I would wonder if this was a pre-production sample from Kumata for the 2000 run.   That would explain the hybrid nature of this model.

I love these models, and enjoy learning all I can about them.

[spookshow]

Do you still have contact info for the guy who sold you all the kits? Maybe he knows what it is.

-Mark

[u18b]

That's a good idea.

I think he was the president of the company back then (about 2013 or so).
If I can't find it, I may shoot a generic email to the company.

Found the email.
Message sent.
When I had questions years ago, the president of the company answered.
Hopefully they can answer about this model.

[u18b]

I just received an email from Kumata.

The person answering does not know any answers as to the history of this model.

So... we are left with a mystery.

@spookshow  Mark, maybe you could post a sentence or so about the mystery on the EP-2 page.  Maybe one day, someone in Japan or somewhere else will send you a message identifying what we want to know.

Until I hear otherwise, the best guess that makes the most sense is that this is a prepoduction sample of the 2001 run.
They made this model as a test.... and someone in management/product development said....
"Hey.  I wonder if you can make the headlights work.   See what you can do."

One last chance is the seller of the auction- though it is a long shot.
I have still not heard back from Ryoichi Fukushima  @0303fxm 
Maybe the seller will answer his query.

[spookshow]

Ronnie, as much as I love trivia, this might be too trivial even for me 

-Mark