Author Topic: New brass Milwaukee Bipolar EP-2 clinic- part 2  (Read 52104 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

robert3985

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3124
  • Respect: +1502
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #330 on: April 07, 2017, 09:00:51 PM »
0
Hey... great idea!  How about nickel silver rod?  OnlineMetals.com has it, and it would look terrific.    You can even solder it easily, if you want to do that to attach it to the body.   https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?step=2&id=1262
Look under the "brass" drop-down from the top.

Nickel silver rod would work fine, although aluminum is easier to work, and glue will work just fine instead of solder.  With either, after you get everything in place, cover each fiber optic rod with something like tape or little blob of liquid mask, and air-erase the metal.  I think that'd give just the finish you're looking for.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

u18b

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3709
  • Respect: +1954
    • My website
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #331 on: April 08, 2017, 04:11:57 PM »
0
I'm not understanding.

How would rod help me?

I'm using a tube.
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3709
  • Respect: +1954
    • My website
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #332 on: April 08, 2017, 04:15:02 PM »
0
I appreciate the good suggestions.

Nickel Silver sheet is a good idea.

The problem is getting a sheet in something that is thin enough.

The sheet I'm using is only 2 mil.

So far, my searching has not shown anything near that thin.

Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

Kentuckian

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 900
  • Gender: Male
  • "This all started with Romans 10:9!" -Apologetix
  • Respect: +496
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #333 on: April 08, 2017, 04:25:33 PM »
0
I have absolutely no experience working with sheet nickel silver, but I would buy the thinnest sheet available and use a hammer and anvil the thin it. Might be worth a try?
Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

“Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. ... Everything science has taught me-and continues to teach me-strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.” Wernher von Braun

u18b

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3709
  • Respect: +1954
    • My website
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #334 on: April 08, 2017, 04:36:05 PM »
0
That might be a possibility.

Remember, the tube is not really the problem since it is hidden inside the headlight casing.

The problem is the thin sheet soldered across the opening.

Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

mmagliaro

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 6368
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1871
    • Maxcow Online
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #335 on: April 08, 2017, 04:54:00 PM »
0
 2 mil?  .002" thick, really?

Well, I can't get you that thin, but here:
https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=category&task=listing&cid=1099&name=nickel-silver-flat-strip-metric&Itemid=189

It looks like the thinnest is 0.1mm, about .004" thick.

u18b

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3709
  • Respect: +1954
    • My website
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #336 on: April 08, 2017, 08:16:44 PM »
0
2 mil?  .002" thick, really?

Well, I can't get you that thin, but here:
https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=category&task=listing&cid=1099&name=nickel-silver-flat-strip-metric&Itemid=189

It looks like the thinnest is 0.1mm, about .004" thick.

Yes, mine is 2 mil.
4 mil might work.  I bookmarked the page in case I need it later.  Thanks.

But actually, all these are good ideas, but I'm not sure they will be needed.

Fri morning I stopped by an office supply store and bought two kinds of silver markers.  One was paint and the tip was too fat and too much paint came out.  Less helpful.

But the Sharpie silver marker actually worked well.   I tried it on the undersized piece.  Remember, this silver color only serves ONE important purpose.  It makes photos look more natural.  It has no functional purpose.   So the silver Sharpie was a great idea, and I think it can work well.

But I've been tied up and have not had a chance to try it on the light cover that is the correct size.

But in the intervening time since Thurs, I thought of another possibility.  Not perfect, but it might work.
When I tin the 2 mil sheet..... I could tin BOTH sides.    That will make it a little thicker, but it will already be silver in color.  As long as I am not over-zealous in filing it smooth and get back to phosphor bronze yellow, then it should be OK.

Actually it might not be all that thick since the sheet is laid on a piece of wood and then I place a tube over it and torch it to melt the solder.

Well, the solder will melt underneath too.... and since it is pressed onto wood, it should flatten out.

I look forward to giving this a try when I have some time.



« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 08:19:51 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

mmagliaro

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 6368
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1871
    • Maxcow Online
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #337 on: April 08, 2017, 10:44:50 PM »
0
The tinning is a swell idea!
I think if you just hold it down flat on a piece of very fine (like 1000 grit) sandpaper, you will be able to sand the tinned surface extremely smooth and flat without taking too much solder off.  A final pass with some 2000 grit will make it really look polished.

u18b

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3709
  • Respect: +1954
    • My website
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #338 on: April 08, 2017, 10:56:40 PM »
0
Now that's another good idea.

(as long as the torch doesn't catch the paper on fire  )   :tommann:
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

nkalanaga

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 9895
  • Respect: +1446
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #339 on: April 09, 2017, 12:54:09 AM »
0
Unless it's a very smooth piece of wood, it could leave grain in the solder.  Probably not a problem, if you sand it smooth anyway, but I have had it happen on soldering projects.

If it IS a problem, maybe solder it on a piece of aluminum?  The solder won't stick, and the aluminum should be smooth.
N Kalanaga
Be well

nscaler711

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 831
  • Gender: Male
  • @frs_strelizia
  • Respect: +221
    • IG
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #340 on: April 09, 2017, 03:48:52 AM »
0
But the Sharpie silver marker actually worked well.   I tried it on the undersized piece.  Remember, this silver color only serves ONE important purpose.  It makes photos look more natural.  It has no functional purpose.   So the silver Sharpie was a great idea, and I think it can work well.

But I've been tied up and have not had a chance to try it on the light cover that is the correct size.

I have used a silver sharpie just to bring the walkways on my walthers wells and various other metal pieces...

“If you have anything you wanna say, you better spit it out while you can. Because you’re all going to die sooner or later." - Zero Two

u18b

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3709
  • Respect: +1954
    • My website
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #341 on: April 11, 2017, 11:50:37 AM »
+3
OK.   Try number 5 based on all I've learned so far.

First, a comparison.
Here is a photo of one of the best brass EP-2s ever made.  It is an HO model made by Precision Scale Iron Horse Models.  These are the models that inspired me.
Notice how they handled the headlight on this late model Cigar band EP-2 (at least I assume precision Scale did it-- since I've seen a lot of them this way.  It is possible they got these discs from Todd at Streamstyle graphics.... or maybe Todd bought all their supply when finished.  Either way, it looks like the disc from Streamstyle Graphics). 

It has an etched stainless disc.  No lenses.  And also note that it has no cover glass.  In fact, this disc fits in exactly the place of the cover glass.

I'm going to shoot for something more if possible.




Made a good size pool of solder- actually on both sides when tinned.   Then placed the cut tube and heated.




This is the underside.  Important pic.  Notice the divot in the center of the tube.   What has happened is that when the liquid solder cools, it contracts and PULLS the 2 mill cover with it.  This is counter productive to what I wanted.  It will require more filing than I wanted to get that divot out.




In the end, after cleaning it all up, I had actually filed almost all of the 2 mill cover away.  So that part of this experiment (letting the solder be the silver cover) did not work.




I cut off the disc and did a better job of hollowing out the back this time.




Here is a comparison between a past try and this one.  The old try is on the right- it is too small.   
The silver Sharpie idea worked- for the most part.   But it was pretty hard to draw "in the lines" and not get it on the fiber optic lenses.  So I had to scrape the silver off the lenses---but now they don't look perfectly round.   This has not bearing on function, but we were trying to get a good photogenic look in close-ups when the light is off-- and this is not good enough.

BTW- my new disc is 1 mm tall, and about 1.85 mm.  Also, the holes are SMALLER.  They are now about 20 mil.



Test fitting.  It takes a LOT of work to get to this point.
This moment approximates the Precision Scale look in HO.   But I was thinking.....

The silver Sharpie needs to go FIRST.  With fiber optics installed after.  Maybe I could get some real lenses.... but the disc will have to go in DEEPER.




So I shaped the disc some more.  The height is cut down to  .75 mm and I needed to reduce the diameter (the headlight casting appears narrower the deeper you go).  I had to trim the diameter to about 1.75 mm to get it to test fit well.




Since it now fits, I cover the surface with the silver Sharpie.   This worked well.  Thanks Nscaler711.




Fiber optics installed.  This time 20 mil instead of 30 mil.




This time I glued them from the inside.   




I then melted the lenses on the back side (carefully so as not to melt the solder!!!).
Then trimmed the front.
I used tweezers to hold this small thing so I could hold a flame near to melt the lenses.  I was worried the lenses would be too fat.




I think this is the look we were after.    :ashat:
Actual lenses, AND the cover glass is in place on the outside (even though it is so clear you can't see it easily).



When lit, it looks great.   That light leakage at the bottom is not very noticeable to your naked eye.  It also shows that this casting is not perfectly round!    But even though the photo is not perfect since the camera picks up the stray light, in real life, all you really see are the three headlights.  Not as bright as before, but it definitely captures the effect.





This shot is better in that it shows a comparison between the bright headlights and the relatively dim light leakage.   If I publish photos with the lights on, I'll probably photoshop them at that light leakage so that they look more like what you see.




« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 02:54:20 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3709
  • Respect: +1954
    • My website
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #342 on: April 11, 2017, 12:11:45 PM »
0
Super close Macro photos are so crazy.  Just a reminder of what we are really dealing with here.....
That thing only covers three of the lines on my fingerprint!




I'm still not certain it is worth it.   It probably took me about 4-5 hours to get to this point.  And I have another one to make for the A Cab.
And that's not counting all the previous attempts.  I probably have 30-40 hours in research and dev in these headlights alone.  Yikes!   :scared:




« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 12:18:45 AM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

svedblen

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 644
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +349
    • Three Yards Yard - beware - it is H0 - No, now it's O
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #343 on: April 11, 2017, 02:04:47 PM »
0
I'm still not certain it is worth it.

I can't say if it is worth it, for you, but it looks so much better. Incredible!
Lennart

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 24738
  • Head Kino
  • Respect: +9252
    • Conrail 1285
Re: New brass EP-2 clinic- part 2
« Reply #344 on: April 11, 2017, 02:07:58 PM »
0
I've always wondered. What's the story with the three beams? Like, WHY did MILW do that?