New brass Milwaukee Bipolar EP-2 clinic- part 2

[u18b]

Wow.
I just spent over 4 hours masking and then painting (mostly masking) just one cab for the maroon.
 

Dang.  This was the hardest masking I've ever done.

Now I remember why I don't model custom painted Chessie System locos.

And..... I'm almost starting to think that all black EP-2 are rather nice.

Photos to be posted a bit later.

[u18b]

The sides weren't so bad, but the nose was a nightmare with all that detailing.

[Sokramiketes]

Ron, buddy... With all the work that's going into the model, don't push through just to get it done.  Figure out those airbrush settings on some scrap models first and then come back to the project.  The Zen Master wouldn't be happy.

[peteski]

Ron, buddy... With all the work that's going into the model, don't push through just to get it done.  Figure out those airbrush settings on some scrap models first and then come back to the project.  The Zen Master wouldn't be happy.

A big +1!
The black looks quite rough.  Maybe practicing the airbrush settings on some plastic spoons would help?  That is what I often do.

Normally don't pay too much attention to my technique, but I was just airbrushing a clear coat on a baggage car recently and I was making mental notes of  the settings.

It was a combo of Dull- and Gloss-cote and lacquer thinner.  The typical 1% milk consistency (give or take some).  Badger 200 with a medium nozzle and around 18-20 psi dialed up.  I was painting with the airbrush about 4-6" from the model, and the needle was open wide enough to produce a nice wet coat. The result was a smooth finish lie the photo of my RS-3 I posted earlier in the thread.

[robert3985]

A big +1!
The black looks quite rough.  Maybe practicing the airbrush settings on some plastic spoons would help?  That is what I often do.

Normally don't pay too much attention to my technique, but I was just airbrushing a clear coat on a baggage car recently and I was making mental notes of  the settings.

It was a combo of Dull- and Gloss-cote and lacquer thinner.  The typical 1% milk consistency (give or take some).  Badger 200 with a medium nozzle and around 18-20 psi dialed up.  I was painting with the airbrush about 4-6" from the model, and the needle was open wide enough to produce a nice wet coat. The result was a smooth finish lie the photo of my RS-3 I posted earlier in the thread.

+1

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

Ron,
Maybe that paint job looks ok to the naked eye from a foot away, but as the photos show, the finish is far from smooth.

I hope that you realize that these are all constructive comments, and that we aren't trying to just gang up on you. Well, maybe we are ganging up on you . . .    What is that saying?  Better modeling through peer pressure? 

Seriously, you do such an awesome job on prepping and detailing these rare models, and on designing beautiful decals.  Paint and decal jobs are a crowning touch on any model - in your usual quest for perfection would you want anything less than perfect?

Oh, I don't recall which paint you use but for painting rolling stock and locos I pretty much exclusively used Accu Paint (now Tru Color Paint).  It works so well!  Scalecoat paint is good too, but it takes much longer to dry.  Because the finish is so flat I only use Floquil paints for structures and weathering (which they are perfect for).

[u18b]

Well, this has been a bit painful.

I had really wanted to have #2 finished by the end of the summer and #3 by Christmas.  #3 is already built, just needs paint.

So I have decided to strip this one and start over.

To be honest, I'm not sure what happened, other than some normal adjustment to new paint, new airbrush.   I experimented yesterday and did fine.  Maybe it was a bit windy.  Don't know.  It is possible that the paint was not thinned enough.

At any rate, I'll start over.

By the way, in answer to questions, I'm using Tru-color.

I did learn some things about this model though.

1.  My idea for using label refuse for the curves on the nose worked pretty well.  However, there was a couple of problems.  First, the sticky on the label curves did not stick to the Tamiya tape very well.   Thus one change will be to apply the curves earlier so they are stuck mostly to the shell.

Also, the masking is SO complex getting around those little platforms, that doing the curve sooner rather than later is once again better.

2.  I noticed that KMT painted theirs such that the entire vestibule was black.  That looked good.  I'll stop the stripe at the vestibule base.

3.  One other change I may make is primer.  I may do without it.  The tru-color bottle says primer is an option.  Since I have sandblasted these with an air eraser, I think the brass is rough enough that primer is not needed.

So when I have time, I'll soak the shell parts in acetone and strip them- brushing them with a toothbrush
Then after final rinsing and cleaning, drying, immediately paint the parts orange.

By the way, the walkway and trucks look better.  So I won't be re-doing those.

[robert3985]

I think that's a good call Ron.  I've had to do that a couple of times when switching to a different brand of paint.  In the long run, you'll be much happier with an excellent paint job to compliment your excellent work...

Oh...and by the way, I use close-up photos as an impartial and cruel judge of my work.  If it looks good at several times life sized, then it's going to look great running on the layout, or under a contest judge's steely eye.  I used to take photos at the end of a project, but I've learned that photos at each important milestone will tell me if it's good enough to leave alone and progress to the next step.

Also, I only use primer when painting something that isn't opaque, like ME UP wooden cabooses, which are molded in a nearly translucent yellow.  I want 'em to be opaque since I'm painting them yellow too.  On brass, I just clean the models in my ultrasonic cleaner with a commercial ultrasonic cleaning solution, rinse 'em off and spray.  I've never needed to apply "tooth" to brass to make paint stick, and in 30+ years of doing this, I've never had paint flake off.  I use Scalecoat II almost exclusively for brass, and bake it at 180 deg for 30 minutes between coats.  I've been using Tru-Color for my plastic projects, which usually include brass details without worrying about adhesion (only opacity).  I wash my plastic models in a mild, warm soapy water solution (using Dawn), then go over them next, after drying them with compressed air, with Bestine.  The theory is that some greases and waxes are impervious to soap, and some to Heptane, but not many are impervious to both.  This has worked well so far for me.

Peter's ( @peteski ) use of plastic spoons to practice with is an EXCELLENT idea, and I will try it out myself before painting my stripped Kato 10-6 Pennsy sleepers to UP Amour Yellow in a week or two since I want a flawless, shiny finish on them.  Maybe this would be something beneficial to you also.

In any case, keep up the excellent work.  I enjoy and read every thread of yours.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[nkalanaga]

"I use Scalecoat II almost exclusively for brass, and bake it at 180 deg for 30 minutes between coats."

Thank you, Bob.  I've been wondering if Scalecoat II could be baked.  The chemicals look the same, just a different mix, but I've never heard of anyone doing it.  Now I can buy just the SC II, since most of my work is on plastic, and use it for the rare metal model.  Won't save any money, but it will cut down on the clutter.

[u18b]

Well, after doing a bit more research, I think I have discovered the problem.

Of course my first problem was new airbrush and new paint without practice was a bad combination.
But learning did come of it.

I spent some time on the Trucolor site.

Here is their attempt to keep people like me from messing up.

http://trucolorpaint.com/about-us/faq/

And I quote:

Although Tru-Color Paint contains a small percentage of acetone we DO NOT RECOMMEND that acetone be used to thin (dilute) the Tru-Color Paint.  Adding just acetone to thin Tru-Color Paint may harm the intended gloss or semi-gloss finish our paint is intended to give as it will dry too fast.  Also, too much acetone will cause the solvent system to evaporate too quickly during air brushing causing the painted surface to appear rough...

And that is exactly what I did.
When I started out, the paint was just too thick.  All  bottles of volatile stuff can leak micro amounts.  In fact, if you buy a new/unopened bottle of Tru-Color paint, place it in a zip lock bag for a few days or weeks and then open the bag up, you will smell acetone vapors that have leaked out.

So since it was too thick, yes..... I added acetone ( ).

Anyway, that explains it.

I ordered some of their thinner, but I also read somewhere where a guy uses laquer thinner to thin his.

I'd much rather go the cheap way as long as good results are obtained.

For example, Floquil always said to only use their Diosol to thin their paint.
I never did.  Laquer thinner worked perfect for me.

The cynical part of me thinks that manufacturers are just trying to make an extra buck by urging you to buy THEIR thinner.

If that is the only way-- then so be it.   (for example, I use Testors Model Master Acryl thinner for their Acryl paint.  Works great and does not cost a ton.

So sometime this week, I hope to experiment with Tru-color and laquer thinner.

I'm sure some of you will share your experiences.

The model will be better in the end.

By the way--- since we are on the topic of Tru-Color paint.... someone explain to me what the heck you are supposed to do with their GLOSS bottle TCP-018.

I tried it and the results were terrible.  I thinned some and painted the sideframes.  The results turned WHITE.

It was no big deal and took me about 15 minutes to correct.

But that experience tells me that this gloss is NOT like other gloss.

For Floquil Crystalcote and for Model Moster Acryl gloss coat (my favorite), you just treat it like any other paint.  Meaning, you thin as needed and then paint with the stuff.

But I'm wondering if this stuff is not meant to be used that way.  Like maybe just add a few drops to your colored paint.

Their FAQ and website is useless on this topic.  They say their paints do not require anything since they are glossy-- and that may be true.
But why sell TCP-018 if it is "unneeded" and you don't explain how to use it?   

And the label on the gloss paint is the same standard label that is on all their other paint.

[peteski]

I'm glad to see you redoing it Ron.

I never used Tru Color gloss so I can't offer many hints. Flat or semigloss paints have flattening agent in them which if not mixed properly can turn white when dry. But since it is gloss there is no flattening agent.  The other thing I can think of is that maybe it reacted with whatever paint was under the gloss.  Or maybe if the ambient air was humid, the paint "blushed"?  I do not spray-paint when it is too humid outside/inside.

When properly applied Tru Color paint has a semigloss or eggshell finish which it perfect for decaling.

As far as thinners go, the amount you need to thin the paint for airbrushing is so miniscule that it is really worth it to use the (more expensive) thinner specifically designed for the brand of paint.  That is what I do in most instances.  The gamble is not worth the trouble. I do use lacquer thinner for some old Testors PLA enamels which seems to to make them dry faster. But I do use plenty of acetone and lacquer thinner when cleaning out the airbrush! 

[u18b]

Well, for the second time in this major project, I stripped the paint off and started over (last time it was imperfect decals- and I made my own).

As you can see, the painting went on much better.

I made two changes.

1.  Thinned Truecolor paint with plain old lacquer thinner.   All my problems from before were simply from thinning with acetone.   Problem now solved.

2.  I did not prime this time.  Since the brass was roughed up with an air eraser previously, I took y'alls suggestion and just put the paint straight on there.

Hopefully it will not pull loose in the next masking steps.

Back at work now.  Thanks to those who PM and emailed me about my somewhat cryptic remark about a normal "life event."

My daughter got married.  Life has been tied up with that.
But that is over, as well as my end of year reports with my job.

Now back to modeling!

[SP-Wolf]

Ron,

Congratulations to you and your daughter!!

The paint job looks outstanding!!

Regards,
Wolf

[wazzou]

So, so much better.  No doubt worth the extra effort.

[peteski]

The improvement in the quality of your paint finish is amazing!  Way to go Ron!

As far as primer goes, if the bare surface has different colors (like brass, solder and plastic showing on the same shell) and if the top paint is a very light or translucent color, then I would put on a thin and smooth coat of primer (probably Tamiya Fine Primer). But if the paint is very opaque then the primer should not be needed (and the fine surface detail will be nice and crisp).  Looks like you have it all figured out.

I hope that you will still use Tamiya masking tape, and remove it very carefully.