NP Radial Roof Boxcar Build (was request for ideas)

[mmagliaro]

EDIT: 05-June-2015
Retitled this thread.  It has become a construction thread now as I build the car.
Thank you to everyone who helped me with suggestions and ideas!
-- Max
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NP fans have been waiting years for somebody to make a correct radial -roof  NP double-sheathed wood 40'
car.  GHQ showed some preproduction models, but never offered the kit for sale.

Here's an idea I have been pondering for some time, and I expect other people have thought of this, so I wanted to float the idea by you all and see what you think.

Here's a nice HO model of said car.  Note the radial roof shape:


Now, here's an out-of-production, but not too hard to find, Micro Trains car that I think is very similar:



I don't even care about starting with an "NP" Micro trains car, as I will probably strip it and repaint and reletter it anyway
so I can get a better, more red, color on it.    But otherwise, it looks to me like the MTL car is very close - about the correct
size, door type, grabs, ladders, and so on.  Truss rods and some brake hardware underneath wouldn't be hard to add.
MTL archbar trucks, while not exactly the same as the NP ones, would be close.

The roof is the thing.   But it seems to me that it wouldn't be that hard to remove the walkway, sand the roof smooth, and then
just skin it over with a sheet of thin .010" styrene, bowed into that curved shape.  The sliver-shaped end gaps could be filled with some epoxy, which would also strengthen the roof, and then it needs new ribs and a walkway.

What I want to know is am I missing something else?  What do folks think of the idea?  I don't want to waste my time
making a conversion like this if the car will still have some wretched inconsistency.

Thanks.

[Missaberoad]

One thought that screams to mind is the MTL car is a USRA car, while the HO model you show as reference is a much earlier car. This isn't necessarily a problem since NP has had USRA boxcars with their trademark roofline.

How accurate are you interested in going? The MTL car has a 5/5/5 Murphy end and the NP cars I have pictures of have a 7/8 Murphy end. In that regard Atlas makes a model that would be a much better starting point...

Beyond the roofline I would also change the door stop, this stands out on all the NP double sheathed boxcars Ive seen, and by the 1940's the Archbar trucks would have been changed out for a bettendorf style... 

Attached is a photo of NP 12315 circa. 1947

edit: for past tense

[Chris333]

You could just beg Gregg Scott to sell you a casting 

[bbussey]

If you're going to start with a USRA boxcar, I would use the Atlas version which sits at the proper height above the rail.  I then would salvage the roof from an Atlas radial ARA 1932 boxcar if all the dimensions match up.

bb

[victor miranda]

when ever I curve sheet styrene....
it always seems to pop loose.

I'd do the curve thing, and while it still holds make a mold.

then cast the things.

victor

[Cumbo2000]

You also could consider using the radial roof from an old MDC/Roundhouse 50-ft express reefer; cut to fit and maybe narrowed some.

Bob Witt

[Palouse51]

Hey Max.

The cars you are talking about were the subject of a build being done by several people on the Yahoo resin freight car group about a year ago. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/resinfreightcars/info

The trucks are not archbars at all. They are an L section Andrews design. As far as the ends of the cars, I'm sure some were probably rebuilt with steel ends at some point, but every photo I have seen shows them with the original wood ends.

They certainly are an interesting car. The radial roof, the use of a deep fishbelly frame WITH truss rods, and the above mentioned L section Andrews trucks all add up to something that stands out from the crowd.

If "close enough" is what you are after I would just start with a wood box with wood ends and fishbelly frame, do the radial roof, and add truss rods. You wont find any N-scale trucks that are really close but later in life these would have been replaced with something more conventional. One of the guys who did the builds on the Yahoo group actually modified some Andrews trucks to get the wavy top chord like the originals but imho that would just be too fiddly in N for a truck that still would not be accurate.

The USRA DS clones like the one posted by Ryan would perhaps be easier but not as much of a stand out.

However you decide to go with this one, I hope you share it with the rest of us.

Oh, I almost forgot. Many years ago I wanted a radial roof for a TT scale NP box. I simply carved it from balsa. After coating with a heavy primer and sanding again, the wood grain was gone and it was ready to add ribs, roofwalk etc. Of course you couls also carve the shape out and then lay some styrene over your patern and aply heat, if you wanted to stay with styrene contsruction.

[mmagliaro]

Well, clearly the car ends have to go.   I don't like the Murphy end at all.  I want this to look like the wood car in my HO photo.
I'm glad somebody noticed that.

I have already gone down the road of discussing this with Greg Scott, but I can't get any of the castings out of him. 
I don't know why he doesn't offer the kits, but that's his business decision to make.

I'm not concerned about ride height.  I've fixed that on plenty of MT cars.  It's not too tough to correct. 
But   (bbussey), you mean the MT car sides are actually the incorrect height?  That would be a deal breaker.

This is starting to sound more and more like it needs to be a total scratchbuild.   Ick.   

I need to think about it some more.

[wcfn100]

  I then would salvage the roof from an Atlas radial ARA 1932 boxcar if all the dimensions match up.

Even if the dimensions matched there are a few strikes against the 1932 radial roof.  First would be finding one.  Only the C&O version has it or you can try and find undec version #3.  There are no parts available for the 1932 box car so you're looking at $20+ for just the roof.  Next would be that it's not a good match to the NP car anyways.  Totally different rib style and pattern at least to the car posted originally.

Jason

[mmagliaro]

Honestly, I don't think the roof will be that tough.  I am more worried about the dimensions and now, the car ends.
The ends of an MT reefer look much better for a car like this, but of course, what would mean carefully cutting the ends out
of a reefer and fitting them into the double-sheathed car.  Now the cost is up to two MT cars.

But as bad as that sounds, it's not that bad.  I have a stash of these MT wood double-sheathed cars with completely useless
road names on them for my Northwest-themed layout now, so I have no qualms about cutting them up.
If I had to lay out 30 or 40 bucks to get the pair of cars I need to make this, that would be a different story.

[BCR 570]

Would the radial roof from a Briggs Models Minibox kit be close enough?

Tim

[bbussey]

Well, clearly the car ends have to go.   I don't like the Murphy end at all.  I want this to look like the wood car in my HO photo.
I'm glad somebody noticed that.

I have already gone down the road of discussing this with Greg Scott, but I can't get any of the castings out of him. 
I don't know why he doesn't offer the kits, but that's his business decision to make.

I'm not concerned about ride height.  I've fixed that on plenty of MT cars.  It's not too tough to correct. 
But   (bbussey), you mean the MT car sides are actually the incorrect height?  That would be a deal breaker.

This is starting to sound more and more like it needs to be a total scratchbuild.   Ick.   

I need to think about it some more.

AFAIK, the MTL body height is accurate.  I still prefer the ATL model even if ride height is not a factor.

You might be better off following Mr. Scott's lead and scratchbuilding the body anyway. 

[Chris333]

The GHQ model:

[Missaberoad]

Why not start with a MTL Reefer then? You're already replacing the roof and it wouldn't be too difficult to add a door and door tracks...
That would avoid the seams from attaching new ends, which on an all wood car would be obvious IMO...

I'll dig for some reference photos when I get home tomorrow

[mmagliaro]

You have a point, Ryan.  Using a reefer and then just putting on a door and roof may be much easier.

Chris,

Yes, that's the GHQ car.  But you know what?  Now that I look at it, that is *not* the car I am trying to build.
Those 14000 series cars had steel ends, not the wooden ends on the 39000 series cars.   I never
noticed that before.