Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha

[Smike]

T , what is T Toward ?

On the news it said he was in the bathroom .

Was the dead man switch compromised ?

Was there also an I'm alert switch , and was that compromised , could it be done ?

I only read that the conductor in the first car was in the bathroom at the time of the crash. Most Likey saved his life. Did read anything about the engineer being in the bathroom.

[up1950s]

I only read that the conductor in the first car was in the bathroom at the time of the crash. Most Likey saved his life. Did read anything about the engineer being in the bathroom.

Could be , I switched into to news whilst the comment was in progress , and the person was referenced as " he " . The suspense is still alive .

[delamaize]

Um, why would we even compare contemporary European and U.S. electric locomotives?  Just look at the European and U.S. rail networks. There is no comparison. BTW, are there currently any U.S. designed and manufactured locos actively used on any of the U.S. railroads?

GE and EMD both make locomotives for export, that under the hood, is the same as what we use here. Australia also uses a lot of locos that are the same design as here.

The point I was trying to make was that Insinuating that the European design is partially to blame, or that it is a inferior design to what we are using here, is pretty damn ignorant.

[up1950s]

GE and EMD both make locomotives for export, that under the hood, is the same as what we use here. Australia also uses a lot of locos that are the same design as here.

The point I was trying to make was that Insinuating that the European design is partially to blame, or that it is a inferior design to what we are using here, is pretty damn ignorant.

Hmmmmmm IGNORANT .......... IGNOR the RANT

[Hyperion]

GE and EMD both make locomotives for export, that under the hood, is the same as what we use here. Australia also uses a lot of locos that are the same design as here.

The point I was trying to make was that Insinuating that the European design is partially to blame, or that it is a inferior design to what we are using here, is pretty damn ignorant.

Um, yeah, there's a reason why there was a  at the end of that comment.

[peteski]

GE and EMD both make locomotives for export, that under the hood, is the same as what we use here. Australia also uses a lot of locos that are the same design as here.

But I was talking about electric locos specifically (not diesel-electrics).  I'm no expert but from what I see, all the electric locos in the NE Corridor have been of European design for decades.

The point I was trying to make was that Insinuating that the European design is partially to blame, or that it is a inferior design to what we are using here, is pretty damn ignorant.

I agree.  Europeans have plenty of experience (much more than Americans) designing and manufacturing electric locomotives.

[sirenwerks]

But I was talking about electric locos specifically (not diesel-electrics).  I'm no expert but from what I see, all the electric locos in the NE Corridor have been of European design for decades.

I agree.  Europeans have plenty of experience (much more than Americans) designing and manufacturing electric locomotives.

Um, and the passenger cars are mostly Japanese (OK, that's a stretch...)... is it a conspiracy?! 

[OldEastRR]

Um, and the passenger cars are mostly Japanese (OK, that's a stretch...)... is it a conspiracy?! 

Yes, a conspiracy among American corporations not to build passenger equipment in the US.

[peteski]

Yes, a conspiracy among American corporations not to build passenger equipment in the US.

Going now on OT tangent...

Maybe because Europeans and Japanese make better passenger equipment? After all, they have decades of experience making this type of equipment in large numbers. American companies? Not so much.  in the last 40 years what have they made?  Amfleet cars, Superliners and the Horizon fleet?  And few commuter cars. That is not much compared to their Japanese and European counterparts.

[nkalanaga]

It isn't so much that foreign passenger equipment is better, as that there is such a small market in North America, so there's no point investing the money to build a factory.

Most European and Asian equipment has to be redesigned to meet FRA standards, so it isn't kike we're buying it "off the shelf", but it can still take advantage of factories which stay busy between our orders.

As Peteski said, the European have a lot of experience with electric locomotives, and with fast, high density railroads, so it's the same as the passenger cars.  The electric loco market is so small in the US that our builders don't have any incentive to bid.

[jagged ben]

Hey, watch the offensive typos...   

[delamaize]

Hmmmmmm IGNORANT .......... IGNOR the RANT

I blame Chrome's auto-correct.

[Rich_S]

But I was talking about electric locos specifically (not diesel-electrics).  I'm no expert but from what I see, all the electric locos in the NE Corridor have been of European design for decades.

I agree.  Europeans have plenty of experience (much more than Americans) designing and manufacturing electric locomotives.

If I remember correctly, the last GE electric locomotives produced for Amtrak were the E60's produced in 1982 and 1983. I believe the last electric locomotive EMD produced was the AEM-7 produced from 1978 to 1988. Of course the AEM-7, even though it was built by EMD, the design was from ASEA.

Part of the problem is capacity and design time. Amtrak only received 73 of the E60's, which takes just as long to design and build as a dash 9. NS received 1,090 C40-9W's. If you were GE, would you want to take up erection shop space for 73 units or 1,090 units? I understand why Amtrak went to Europe for new electric locomotives based on a proven design, order to delivery time was probably a large part of the sell.  I just have to wonder why they didn't go with a standard North American throttle and reverser design? I believe the AEM-7 uses a standard throttle design? aka pull toward you to increase throttle position, push away from you to decrease throttle position.

[sirenwerks]

...the European have a lot of experience with electric locomotives, and with fast, high density railroads, so it's the same as the passenger cars.  The electric loco market is so small in the US that our builders don't have any incentive to bid.

And this is why we have so much Euro/Asian equipment, because the governments of manufacturers' countries are smart enough to bolster (aka subsidize) significant efficient high speed and interurban rail transportation design which has created a market that can sustain manufacturers in those countries, of a quality that American companies can't compete with.  For those companies, re-outfitting their designs for America is probably more akin to charity, they take pity on us and give us their products.  The US has propped (pun intended) the aircraft industry here so we make better fighters and bombers.  The national procuement strategy is to buy planes we don't really need just to employ people and keep companies afloat to be there in war time - which seems to be always these days annyway.  There is talk of peace, but our economy would suffer from it too much.  European and Asian manufacturers profit more from their countrymens' love of and proclivity for travel; conflict be damned, they're going on holiday and they benefit by being more relaxed and informed about the rest of the world from it.  Funnily, the manufacturing know-how for planes could easily be transferred to trains if we (our leadership) would just focus on redeveloping (our) first world in ways that could benefit many.  Think about it, a strong national rail system would employ lots of people across the country, rather than some in a few key places.  If we could just figure out a way to deliver tactical military strike by rail...

[Hyperion]

If I remember correctly, the last GE electric locomotives produced for Amtrak were the E60's produced in 1982 and 1983. I believe the last electric locomotive EMD produced was the AEM-7 produced from 1978 to 1988. Of course the AEM-7, even though it was built by EMD, the design was from ASEA.

Part of the problem is capacity and design time. Amtrak only received 73 of the E60's, which takes just as long to design and build as a dash 9. NS received 1,090 C40-9W's. If you were GE, would you want to take up erection shop space for 73 units or 1,090 units? I understand why Amtrak went to Europe for new electric locomotives based on a proven design, order to delivery time was probably a large part of the sell.  I just have to wonder why they didn't go with a standard North American throttle and reverser design? I believe the AEM-7 uses a standard throttle design? aka pull toward you to increase throttle position, push away from you to decrease throttle position.

Near as I can tell, every single Amtrak unit has a pretty different method of operation.  But they all appear to be push-forward for throttle (must be an electric loco thing -- I can only speak to control systems of diesels, don't know diddly on electrics).  The only ones that look similar -- but I believe still function at least a little different -- are the HHP-8 and the Acela, with their unusual 2-handle throttle that has both manual and 'cruise control' that allows the computer to control dynamic braking automatically to maintain a specific track speed.  Both are definitely push forward for throttle.  The AEM-7 has a totally different control, but it also appears to be push forward for throttle, as every picture I can find has it fully rearward and set to '0'.

Yesterday you asked where the reverser was on the ACS-64... It's right behind the throttle.   It's a 3 way switch with a little ball handle.  Look closely at the cab picture I posted and you can see it set to "FWD" on the leftmost position.