Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha

[up1950s]

Evidently the engineer's lawyer told Good Morning America that he's suffered a concussion and doesn't remember what happened. It seems a little suspect to me, but at the same time, plausible that it could have happened. It's too bad. In cases like these, knowing what was going on in the head of the guy that everyone is going to point the finger at is so important.

There was a mention of cab signals yesterday or was it early this morning on MSNBC . With that , there also was a mention of a cut off switch in the cab . Perhaps the cut off switch activated prior to this engineer climbing aboard and he didn't detect it , or because the train was behind schedule , for a cause unknown to me , and he threw the switch himself , then forgot , and was expecting the normal alarms .

[Smike]

So this makes it s bit more intresting.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/amtrak-crash-train-engineer-agrees-speak-probers-sped/story?id=31042574

"Sumwalt said video from inside the cabin shows that 65 seconds before the crash, the train’s speed went above 70 mph. Just 16 seconds before the end of the recoding, the train’s speed went above 100 mph, Sumwalt added.  "Seconds into the turn, we could see the train tilting 10 degrees to the right,” Sumwalt said. That's when the train crashed and the recording went blank, investigators said"

Now with one of the biggest curves on the NEC between Phila and Newark NJ (once through the immediate curve from the station to cross the Schuylkill River) an engineer is not going to forget its coming (especially with no long straight away prior to lull oneself into compliancy.) Now we see an acceleration into the curve.  Unless this guy is certified crazy, something else might be at play. 

[Hyperion]

So the guy pulls a GermanWings 9525 and attempts suicide by train by gunning it into the tightest curve on the route and when he ends living through it claims he 'doesn't remember a thing'?

Certainly possible.

[sirenwerks]

According to other reports I've seen, it isn't on this section. Not sure why it wouldn't be though,

Likely an issue of funding + maintenance schedule.  When scheduling projects like this, you try to double up your resources and do Project X in places where other work is already scheduled.  And, of course, Amtrak only has so much money so there are blank spots where Project X doesn't happen because other work hasn't occured there yet to piggyback onto and/or money is at a dribble (or all spent up) to fund completion.

[up1950s]

Likely an issue of funding + maintenance schedule.  When scheduling projects like this, you try to double up your resources and do Project X in places where other work is already scheduled.  And, of course, Amtrak only has so much money so there are blank spots where Project X doesn't happen because other work hasn't occured there yet to piggyback onto and/or money is at a dribble (or all spent up) to fund completion.

But then if this is the sharpest turn in the whole NE corridor as the news said wouldn't this spot be the priority for early money spent . Maybe they were holding out for version 2.0 , and this would cause disruption of service if done early on . Just who made that decision and how easy does that person sleep now . 

[Smike]

In digging deeper, PTC for the most part is installed on this section, but has yet to be operational due to radio bandwidth issues in the area. Apparently they are close by have yet to get it complete but working with the FCC on it.

[Albert in N]

Just curious if there was any one else in the cab besides the engineer, such as a brakeman, conductor, or other crew member?  The engineer made a wise decision to only talk to his lawyer. 

[up1950s]

Just curious if there was any one else in the cab besides the engineer, such as a brakeman, conductor, or other crew member?  The engineer made a wise decision to only talk to his lawyer.

He was alone .

[nkalanaga]

WCBS radio in NYC broadcast some comments by an NTSB spokesman, including that they are looking at the possibility that the locomotive itself may be at fault, given the odd acceleration.  If so, hopefully these are still under warranty. 

As the speed limit in the preceding section was 80 mph, and the train was going 70, the sudden acceleration does seem strange. 

The NTSB spokesman also said that the locomotive rolled "multiple" times, so it's understandable that the engineer has a concussion and 14 staples holding his head wound together.  Whatever else comes out, that was one tough unit, and a well-built cab, for him to survive.

If it was the locomotive itself, would PTC have made any difference?  Just like a human engineer, it still has to work through the locomotive's control systems, and if they're the problem...

[Rich_S]

There was a mention of cab signals yesterday or was it early this morning on MSNBC . With that , there also was a mention of a cut off switch in the cab . Perhaps the cut off switch activated prior to this engineer climbing aboard and he didn't detect it , or because the train was behind schedule , for a cause unknown to me , and he threw the switch himself , then forgot , and was expecting the normal alarms .

Per FRA, the cutout switch box for cab signals must be locked. You cannot simple open the door and move the switch to the cutout position. If the cab signals were cutout, the crew has to be notified and you cannot operate the train at track speed.

[Rich_S]

In digging deeper, PTC for the most part is installed on this section, but has yet to be operational due to radio bandwidth issues in the area. Apparently they are close by have yet to get it complete but working with the FCC on it.

Everybody keeps forgetting, PTC does not have to be turned on until December of this year. The sections that are currently in operation are for shake down to work out the bugs. When I first started installing PTC, we were going through software updates weekly. (Disclaimer, I do not work for Amtrak, I work for a freight railroad) Many items like the T.A.G. (Throttle Assisted Gateway) are installed but not yet operational. At this point, yes if PTC was operational it would have been able to stop the train. When PTC is fully operational, it will be able to completely control the train. They'll have people in the cab just to wave at the motoring public at road crossing and PTC will run the trains. What was that, skynet became self aware in 2012?????

[Rich_S]

I knew this was coming.

National Transportation Safety Board member Robert Sumwalt said. It's unclear, Sumwalt said, whether the speed was increased manually by engineer Brandon Bostian, who grew up obsessed with trains.

Yes, it must be his fault since he's one of those crazies that actually likes trains. The railroad industry looks at railfans like they have some type of brain damage, I'm serious.

Here is the whole story.

http://news.yahoo.com/amtrak-train-deadly-wreck-speeding-why-061551289--finance.html

 

[Scottl]

I don't take it that way at all.  It seems pretty balanced for that sort of thing.

After German Wings however, the nature of these investigations will never be the same.

[Smike]

I love that forum postings by an unverified user become news. The standard of journalism continues its decline. 

[peteski]

Yes, the out-of-control news-media.  I blame all of this on Internet and how easy it is to broadcast something to the entire world.  There are so many "reporters" and bloggers out there now that there are bound to me dozens of totally crazy stories out there available for anybody to find and read, then pass it to their social media friends who then pass it to their friends. Suddenly, the crazy off-the-wall "report" has been viewed by hundred thousand people and some of them will actually take it seriously.