Seeking help navigating the RR CirKits product line

[eric220]

I'll be watching the learning with great interest. I still haven't quite filled up my existing Tower Controllers, but if I were to continue using them, I'm getting close to needing another one. My next order will include either another Tower Controller or an SSB adapter and some SSB cards.

[John]

I think the tower controllers are discontinued

[eric220]

I think the tower controllers are discontinued

Well that would certainly settle it...

Edit: A quick check of the RR-CirKits website confirms what I suspected. The TC-64 has, indeed, been discontinued. It has been replaced by the Tower Controller Mark II. Looks like I still have a dilemma.

[GaryHinshaw]

I see that Dick has now posted his first layout command control (LCC) compliant devices for sale, with an indication of more to come.  As I understand it, LCC is basically DCC tailored to the non-mobile side of the layout: signals etc.  Perhaps it will bring some simplification to this enterprise, but it's too early to tell if it will really catch on.  It's not really clear to me that it offers much more than jmri/loconet does, but I could be convinced otherwise.  I'm not going to wait for it though...

[sp org div]

We've always talked about splitting the Loconet buss to isolate the throttle related from the signaling here...  but even with the more recent introduction of sound locos to the layout, I have not seen an urgency to move forward in that direction.  Not a major undertaking to simply split the two when/if needed...
LCC capacity will exceed the conventional Loconet...   but there must be more as you state, to the simplification of it all to make worthwhile.
Jeff

[jagged ben]

Not sure why sound locos should matter much to the DCC bus bandwidth. (Do you people really blow the horn that much?    )

The one application that I'm aware of (not to say there aren't others) where a separate bus would help is flashing signals, flashing lights, and other animated gizmos.  Right now you really do not want JMRI telling a whole bunch of signals to flash on and off over Loconet.   You tell signal controllers to enter a flashing state and avoid more messages on Loconet.   However this leads to limitations in available aspects.  Having a separate communication bus with a lot more bandwidth than the track would allow more flexibility for computer based software to control a lot of this stuff and not have to program remote components. 

[Sokramiketes]

I'll gather some more photos next trip to the project layout to help better tell a story.  What I think is missing from the RR-Cirkits documentation is a Quick-Start Guide, tailored to the steps needed and a process to integrate the SSB boards into a layout.  As Gary mentioned, the manuals are exhaustive in specifications, but not simply a "Hey dummy, here's how to hook things up and make lights change colors"

So I'll treat this thread as a bit of a documentation of what I'm discovering.  I think the product line is superb so far, and am hoping to become fluent.  The main attraction for me is the ease of wiring.  For a home layout where you have a static track plan, I think it will beat just about every other method to date.  I'm pondering how it might work on a Modular layout while avoiding programming every time a layout is set up, so that is rolling around in my head as I progress.

Anyway, the project in question is to install signals on a traditionally constructed layout to be used for training purposes.  The actual layout isn't important, though it will likely end up as an article once finished.

Step one, for a Digitrax system, is to buy an SSB Adaptor.  This device moves Loconet (the Digitrax communication protocol) to the RR-Cirkits Simple Serial Bus (SSB).  It also injects power into the SSB, and allows each subsequent RR-Cirkits device to talk over a daisy chained, three wire, bus line.


The SSB Adaptors can be spread throughout the layout as needed.  (I'm not sure what triggers multiples, that's something I hope to test as far as current draw).  I mounted the first one directly next to the Digitrax base station in the control cabinet.  As you'll see later, there is a lot of powering on/off of the SSB bus power during programming, so I wanted to be able to pull the power at the same location I have the laptop running JMRI.  Speaking of JMRI, don't even bother trying to program these components any other way.  I'm running through a Digitrax PR-3 USB adaptor, and everything comes together here:

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I'm going to first document a control point, let's call it CP-Skibbe, where a single track mainline, passing siding, and a spur converge.  Here's a diagram for our example:

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A Watchman board will monitor 8 blocks for occupancy, so I started to chart out the blocks on the diagram and get them labeled.  Signalman will drive the signals, which are simply going to be Digitrax masts mounted in 5/8" diameter holes.  (But these holes don't accept the 10-wire IDC connectors... so more thought needed there as well, potentially)

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[GaryHinshaw]

Looks familiar!  I'll be watching with interest.  As to programming these boards: Decoder Pro it is!  Here is just one sheet from my Watchman file: 



This page shows how one assigns CT coils wired to terminals 1-4  on the board (the sheet is titled BOD 1-4 for block occupancy detector 1-4) to Loconet sensors 9-12 in jmri (the block numbers on my panel that will be detected).  The only important items on this sheet are the pull down (Block Detector) on the upper right of each section, and the Primary Event # in the first row of each section, which I have identified as 9-12.  The Watchman will then correctly set the states of LS9-12 based on occupancy and that can be tied to jmri blocks, and ultimately to signals.

Here is a screen shot of the staging yard portion of my panel showing that tracks 1,3,4 are occupied and that track 2 is selected to receive an inbound train:



I can access this panel and control the yard from anywhere in the room using my tablet and the jmri web server.  This is going to be very convenient for the terminal manager who will not always have easy access to this yard.  I'm lovin' it!

[John]

Well that would certainly settle it...

Edit: A quick check of the RR-CirKits website confirms what I suspected. The TC-64 has, indeed, been discontinued. It has been replaced by the Tower Controller Mark II. Looks like I still have a dilemma.

@eric220 I would contact Dick .. several years ago I asked him if he would consider re-running the BOD-H detectors .. he not only redesigned them, but made them in a pre-built solid state version ..   he might have some still in stock

[Sokramiketes]

Looks familiar!  I'll be watching with interest.  As to programming these boards: Decoder Pro it is!  Here is just one sheet from my Watchman file: 


This page shows how one assigns CT coils wired to terminals 1-4  on the board (the sheet is titled BOD 1-4 for block occupancy detector 1-4) to Loconet sensors 9-12 in jmri (the block numbers on my panel that will be detected).  The only important items on this sheet are the pull down (Block Detector) on the upper right of each section, and the Primary Event # in the first row of each section, which I have identified as 9-12.  The Watchman will then correctly set the states of LS9-12 based on occupancy and that can be tied to jmri blocks, and ultimately to signals.

Here is a screen shot of the staging yard portion of my panel showing that tracks 1,3,4 are occupied and that track 2 is selected to receive an inbound train:

I can access this panel and control the yard from anywhere in the room using my tablet and the jmri web server.  This is going to be very convenient for the terminal manager who will not always have easy access to this yard.  I'm lovin' it!

Yeah, that's good to note!  There are a ton of items that can be changed via JMRI, but what takes a bit to realize is... what are the minimum steps needed? and in what order? For instance, you can't just start laying down track in PanelPro... you need libraries and tables of turnouts and signals... before you can lay that first switch in the panel!

Anyway, I was back at the layout yesterday.

Here's an overview of the CP:
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As mentioned before, a Watchman will collect 8 detection points.  By convention, I gap the front rail for blocks, and then feed the front feeder through a coil as shown here:
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The RR-Cirkits design is nice, because the current sensing coils can be mounted at the feeder locations.  On Chubb detectors, for example, the feeders have to be run back through each board.  RR-Cirkits suggests using Cat5 cable pairs to run between the coils and the Watchman boards, and that goes pretty quick:
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Cat5 cable has four wire pairs.  Blue, Brown, Green, Orange.  Just to have some sort of convention, I use the pairs in that order (alphabetical) from nearest block to farthest block, as I run the Cat5 cable away from the Watchman board.

You'll also note the 3-conductor brown cable coming into the top of the Watchman.  That is 3-22 solid Thermostat wire, available in rolls at any home improvement store.  This is the SSB cable daisy chaining the devices together.

[Sokramiketes]

Another note about convention... since everything is going to need an address, I'm trying to figure out a scheme on the fly and hoping it all works out in the end.  A standard scheme would be great to have, know, follow.

There is a suggestion to use addresses above 9999 for the SSB devices.  These devices are basically accessory decoders, so they need an address.  Keeping them above 9999 keeps them out of the range of locomotive addresses, and also keeps a basic throttle from accessing them.

So, I'm using the 10,000 series for Watchman and the 11,000 series for Signalman.  12,000 will probably be for the Motorman.

I have the luxury of assigning mileposts, so this CP is stationed at MP 100 and I use the MP digits for the last three digits in the address.  Therefore I'm setting the Watchman for this area at 10.100 (my terminology, 10100 address actual)
The Watchman has 8 detectors, so add a .1 through .8 for each individual block.  10.100.4 for example is the fourth detector set on Watchman with an address of 10100.

I hope that works longterm as I work around the layout.

[Sokramiketes]

About this time yesterday I was cooking on programming SSB devices, running trains to test block detection and watching the devices sending loconet commands, and starting to program Signalman to DCC Mast Control... when...

Has Digitrax just locked up on anyone before?  I could no longer read any values in JMRI.  I could no longer run trains.  Even pulling all the SSB devices and the JMRI/PR3 off the command station, I couldn't get trains to run again.  I did a reset of switch 39 in the DB150 to clear it out.  No dice.  Hooking JMRI back up, I can monitor loconet traffic, and it looks good, but nothing runs.  Layout power cycled on and off fine through Digitrax both JMRI switch and through a DT402 throttle.  No nothing. 

The thing that bothered me most was that JMRI seemed to be locked up too, where I could not even read CV's on decoder pages. 

I ended up walking away, and will head back with a different booster to see if it didn't fry something.  An internal check didn't locate any burnt components, but something is up.

[John]

Mike .. I've had something similar happen in the past .. next time it happens, start removing loconet devices and see if you can isolate it ..

[Sokramiketes]

Mike .. I've had something similar happen in the past .. next time it happens, start removing loconet devices and see if you can isolate it ..

I was down to just the command station: throttle plugged straight into the front, and the only track being a foot long piece of flex swapped from the programming track to the layout connections.  And still nothing.  So that seems to narrow it down to a bad command station.

[GaryHinshaw]

Woof.  I hope it was just a coincidence.

That is 3-22 solid Thermostat wire, available in rolls at any home improvement store.  This is the SSB cable daisy chaining the devices together.

Great tip on thermostat wire.  I've been using 3-18 stranded and it's too hard to work with.  I'll definitely have to get some 3-22.  More generally, thanks for all the documentation.