a few questions for kato gs-4 owners.

[victor miranda]

Forumers,

I didn't want to post this in the other recent gs-4 threads
as I was drifting off to sleep last night I was wondering about the life and times
of n-scale steam locos.

my off hand guess is that a new loco gets run for about a year
and then on odd occasions. to show off a beauty train when company comes over perhaps.

of GS-4:

still run it?

ever change the traction tire?

willing to inspect it for cracked axles?

had a driver fall off?

I have a friend who has melted a tender truck...
have you done that?

do you treat it any different than a b-mann hvy Mtn?
(They came out near each other)

I think I am unusual in that I like to have an old RR pacific
pulling cars on the loop of track... as company while I tinker
and model.

I use Kato Hudsons for this service as well.
the gs-4 is not one I like for this, it is a little too quiet I think.


victor

[RBrodzinsky]

Victor,

My GS-4 is still the most often run loco on my layout. It was my first n-scale acquisition, along with the Daylight passenger set, and still my absolute favorite. I had Vince at Top Hobby install a Tsunami for me, since at the time I had zero experience, and it runs as well today as it did 5 years ago.

The traction tires did come off, but I used a thin amount of paint to "glue" them in place, no problems since.  And, I also carry this to shows for SV FreeMoN.

[carlso]

Victor,

Good idea, this thread.
Let me say that my GS-4 came out of the very first production, can't remember what year that was. I was not patient enough to wait for KATO's fix for the shorting problem and took the loco apart, got out my dremel and made enough clearance on the frame halves. Never have had a shorting proble. I installed a Tsunami T-750 along with the very large Cap and an enclosed speaker. It sounds good and is acceptable as far as noise is concerned.

The loco is my very favorite of all my locos. I am an SP man by birth as my father was a hoghead for 42 years on the T&NO/T&L. I always wanted a GS-4 and a cabforward without breaking the bank with brass units. This loco was run heavily the first year or so and then sort of faded except for running on NTrak layouts at shows such as the OK City Train Show in December for 5-6 consecutive years. It has approx. 80-90 hours on it.

Is it worn, does it have cracked axle? Heck I can't even see the axles and bearings or the bearing blocks after removing the driver plate. I have a new set of drivers and pins for it. The traction tire came off fairly early in its career and I used Bull Frog Snot very cautiously on the driver. Has worked well.

I have decided to send it to Max and I have given him free range to study it and do what ever it needs. My guess is he will find the same type of problems that he has mentioned.

I did not ask him to do this but it "looks" like without any measurements that the FEF coreless motor/dual flywheel unit might fit into the GS-4 as it too has dual flywheels.

To answer your question about treating it any different than a B'mann , is at that time I wouldn't have considered buying a B'mann anything. I now have an EM-1, that has had some upgrading, that runs every bit as well as this GS-4, I don't think it comes close to the FEF however.

[VonRyan]

I watched some bloke fiddle with the pilot truck of his after he melted it by running across isolation gaps and causing a short circuit.
But that guy doesn't count for any statistics. No matter what he has, there is bound to be all kinds of strange problems.
That guy would end up having problems even with an engine that Max had worked on.

[victor miranda]

one day I will learn to await many answers before I post....

  gotta wonder when that day will arrive.

one of the things that happens on forums like this is that any issues with a product
do get magnified and I definitely prefer that becasue the other way
we have no idea what to look for when looking for a used model.

I think the Kato GS-4 came out in 2008. 
I just figured as newer models came out (like that EM1, Oh My!)
the gs-4 would get used less and less.

I guess I was thinking and curious about what is normal.
when a loco shows signs of having problems, what happens?
pack it up?  and run something else?

I have a few locos I have done just that.

a ll/Walthers berkshire springs to mind.

I certainly didn't send it back to Walthers.

on the other hand I don't try to run the minitrix k4's I have.
.... I got them that way.  one does not run a project?

the one gs-4 I know had a melted truck and a bit more
was on a DCC layout and no one is quite certain how the meltdown happened.
has anyone melted something else?

I really was expecting a wide ranging topic...

victor

[mmagliaro]

I apologize for totally misreading this.  You said, would  end up having problems... not that
he even owns something I fixed for him (and as it turns out, he doesn't).
Okay... sorry for the interruption.  I'll just shut up now!

-------------------

I watched some bloke fiddle with the pilot truck of his after he melted it by running across isolation gaps and causing a short circuit.
But that guy doesn't count for any statistics. No matter what he has, there is bound to be all kinds of strange problems.
That guy would end up having problems even with an engine that Max had worked on.

Now you've got my attention, because I have no idea who this would be.  Send me a PM if you are at
liberty to tell me what the nature of the problem was, or if the fellow contacted me directly
to get his engine fixed.   I ask because if there is somebody out there lurking who is unhappy
with an engine I worked on for him, and he has not told me,  I want to know about it.
 (It is not appropriate to blather about a specific customer or personal situation
here, so just PM me.  Thanks!)

[delamaize]

still run it?

I have 3, 2 are still GS4, one is now my A4. I run the A4 a lot, the other two, not as much.

ever change the traction tire?

Yes, all 3 have thrown tires over their life with me, and all 3 have been replaced.

willing to inspect it for cracked axles?

All 3 of mine were 2nd hand, and all 3 were not railed properly, and had cracked axles, I have since repaired all 3.

had a driver fall off?

Yes, my A4 had an axle come completely apart, thats is one of the contributing factors to finding the cracked axle tubes on my fleet.

I have a friend who has melted a tender truck...
have you done that?

The one that became the A4 had melted tender truck on it when I got it. the PO stated it was from a failed decoder install.

do you treat it any different than a b-mann hvy Mtn?
(They came out near each other)

Yes, I use a railing ramp with the GS4s and always rail them tender first, then apply power, and let them rail themselves after that.

I think I am unusual in that I like to have an old RR pacific
pulling cars on the loop of track... as company while I tinker
and model.

I use Kato Hudsons for this service as well.
the gs-4 is not one I like for this, it is a little too quiet I think.

Mine is a old Arnold V200 (german) meat grinder with a string of european freight. All the metal wheels and the locomotive noise makes a pleasant sound in my book. 

[victor miranda]

well, this thread has about 10-ish locos in it.
they may well be here simply because they have problems

it is hard to draw any conclusions because of that.

cracked axles in the gs-4 seem endemic.

even if it is only 1 in four axles fail....
there are four chances in each loco...

I like the adding collars to the axles
because that preserves the smaller axle/bearings
and smoother operation...
However that may stand, having spare parts is a darned good idea
because adding collars sometimes fails as a repair.
one axle was reamed out and I could not get it true.

victor

[seusscaboose]

The melted truck occurred when it spanned a turnout frog and didn't trip the system to cause a short ....   And the engine was left unattended for a few minutes

Simple fix

Pop on a new truck

Bam

Fixed

[peteski]

I own 2. I owned one SP version from the 1st run but instead of modifying the frame for DCC or installing the Kato plastic washer workaround I sold it.  I then bought the SP from the 2nd run along with the AFT version.

The only problem I had was with the AFT's wheels being blackened with s non-conductive substance.  Kato was made aware of that and I simply removed the blackening from the threads (only the loco needed that - tender wheels were ok).  At the time I documented my AFT problem on the A-board.

Other than that - no problems. No defects or cracked axles of any kind.  They might have thrown a tire once or twice, but that's about it.  The new traction tired (for FEF and GS4) are much improved. I don't run them too often (usually during N-Trak model train shows I attend with the club I belong to). 

The melted truck syndrome is nothing new. Any Kato loco (steam or Diesel) or passenger car which picks up power through multiple wheels can melt if left across a track gap with opposite polarity.  I have documented this damage on one of Kato GEVOs (Glen Poole's) on the A-board and friend of mine had a meltdown of a passenger car. It wasn't wasn't the truck itself but since the car was sitting with each truck in a different block the brass pickup strip inside the car got so hot that it melted the car's floor.

[ntex]

Lighted Kato cars stopped on a booster break on an NTRAK layout.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[victor miranda]

may that never happen again...

My wife said I squeeked when I saw that photo...
oh that is just awful.

victor

[Mark W]

First run GS-4 owner here.  Read about the DCC issue before ever putting it on the layout, so simply waited for the fix inserts.  Never had a problem with it, never threw a traction tire.  Still run it constantly, hours at a time.

That melted dome is a tragedy!  Incandescent car lighting and DCC should never mix.  If you run DCC and have the old incandescent lighting, make it a priority to remove or replace those with LEDs!

[peteski]

First run GS-4 owner here.  Read about the DCC issue before ever putting it on the layout, so simply waited for the fix inserts.  Never had a problem with it, never threw a traction tire.  Still run it constantly, hours at a time.

That melted dome is a tragedy!  Incandescent car lighting and DCC should never mix.  If you run DCC and have the old incandescent lighting, make it a priority to remove or replace those with LEDs!

Mark, those truck and car meltdowns have nothing to do with DC/DCC or incandescent/LED light types. These meltdowns are caused by a high current passing either between the wheels on the same side of the truck, or between the front and rear truck on the same side of the car.  This problem happens most often on DC layouts when either a the wheels in a truck or the front and rear trucks of a car span a gapped block where each block is at opposite polarity.  That causes a high current to flow through the truck's pickups or through the brass contact inside the car. That current is high enough to heat up whatever it is passing through enough to melt or burn plastic.  This can also happen on DCC if the truck or a car sits across 2 DCC power districts which are out of phase.

You might be thinking of the old problem where the original incandescent light bulbs Kato used for passenger car lighting would overheat when used on DCC layouts (since they were running at full brightness, causing them to run hot and melt the roof of the car).

[mmagliaro]

What surprises me about these melt-downs is that the circuit breaker doesn't trip when that much current is flowing.
On an old-fashioned "power pack" with the typical slow-acting thermal breaker, it can take 30 seconds or more
before that darn thing trips.   But I would have thought DCC boosters would trip almost instantly.