Code 55 fasttracks turnouts with Atlas code 55 flextrack

[Mark W]

...Point rails soldered to throwbars have stress on the the joint every time thrown which, over time, causes a point rail to pop off...

...the best is just to use less force when throwing: use a thinner wire on the Tortoise / Bullfrog or a smaller slide switch (SparkFun and AdaFruit have good N-scale-travel distance slide switches).

I think this is overlooked too often when using solder joints on the throwbar.  The tension on the joint when the throwbar travels the exact distance necessary is quite minimal, however when you smash it up against the stock rails as nearly every throw mechanism tends to do, that is where the excessive pressure comes from that will eventually pop the rail off. 

[Mark W]

Mark,

Me like.  Me going to try.

Did you use the Fasttrack tool to shape the point rails, or did you do this by hand?

It also looks like it might be a little tricky to cut the gaps in some of the pcb ties.  How did you do that?

I used a #8 point form to get it started, then shaped it more appropriately free-hand.  A crisp fine tooth saw gaps the PBC ties well. 

[Ken Rice]

It sounds like you have the same problem M.C Fujiwara talked about where the throw bar needs a shim. I can't find the post but it talks about a small piece of styrene going between the throwbar and the bottom of the track and this keeps the throwbar from riding up. Can someone help find this post, i think he reposted in with in the last 2 months?

The main culprit of the OP's problem is the same I found before I did that video: using too much force to throw the points results in the plastic throwbar rising / bending up.
Styrene shims are one way to fix the problem, but the best is just to use less force when throwing: use a thinner wire on the Tortoise / Bullfrog or a smaller slide switch (SparkFun and AdaFruit have good N-scale-travel distance slide switches).

I had actually found that video.  I'm pretty sure the shim is not the problem in this particular case - if I throw the turnout very slowly and hold down the throwbar right at the stock rail it doesn't seem to do anything different.  I have four turnouts installed identically, all using the same caboose ground throw (222S), and this is the only one with the problem.  If I had biased the ground throw to one side or the other (therefore increasing the spring force on that side), I would expect the other side to not bump, but it seems to do it thrown either way.  I suspect if I removed the turnout so I could get a really good look at it on the bench I might be able to figure it out.  But if I get that far, I'd rather just put something better in it's place.  Anyway, that's just the last straw for me - the other issues are less offensive (a little wheel drop in the frog, the need to install point jumpers, the need to fine tune the points with a file), but they all add up.

[Ken Rice]

...
Yes, I use a HO scale tie for the throwbar.  Not really my choice, since all the ones I've done are for the club layout and that's our tradition.  Also we use a stronger wire (.040") than comes with the Tortoise and you really need the wider throwbar for that.  If you use the regular size throwbar I recommend drilling the hole before installing because it is somewhat difficult to get the hole well placed in the center and you don't want to mess that part up after you've installed the throwbar.   


Yes, I use a single piece closure rails.  So far not a problem, but time will tell.

Ken,
I have used the FTracks #6 jig with only Atlas C55 rail and it works with no issues and have built 40+ tunouts.
I use a wider throw bar on points and I add a extra normal width tie just near the wide tie as extra strength. I use Tortoise machines so wanted the wide tie so I could drill a 1mm hole in the tie for the throw bar from the tortoise.
I also use soild point rails. When I make them, I file off the webbing along the lower section of the rail to enable it to flex when the points are thrown. Probably only be an issue for #10 turnouts but definatly needed for #6's.. I also have a heap of atlas turnouts both #5 and #7, and the rolling stock and loco's run much smoother over the hand laid ones.
I used a normal soldering iron with no issues and flux..

See the picture of my turnout in this thread. Note the extra tie to the left of the main wider tie.
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=33418.msg383732#msg383732

Oh, Also, per that thread, dont make the rookie mistake I did and used acid based flux!..

Thanks for the info guys.  Hm, if I remember right I did use acid based flux on the one code 40 I built - if I remember right the fast tracks instructions said to.  Guess maybe that's not such a good idea?

[nscaleSPF2]

I used a #8 point form to get it started, then shaped it more appropriately free-hand.  A crisp fine tooth saw gaps the PBC ties well. 

Thanks, Mark.

[M.C. Fujiwara]

Not to point M.C. out intentionally, but I can demonstrate what's happening to the Atlas points from his example.  If you look at his video, you will notice that the small plastic strap that bridges the two headblock ties parallel to the rail has been removed on the side where he is shimming the throwbar.  I don't recommend removing this "strap," because there will be nothing to hold the points down flush with the stock rails.  If I remember correctly, the Atlas throwbar is notched under the rails, compounding the problem.  If the plastic "strap" is removed, the throwbar can actually rise above the bottom of the rails and the points really stick up above the stock rails.  In other words, that "strap" holds the throwbar down.

Hope this helps,
DFF

P.S.  Again, my apologies to M.C.

No apologies necessary: I came to the same conclusion 
That's why I'll say again: "The less you mess with the Atlas turnout the better."

The throwbar is notched under the rails: that's the space in which I stuck the styrene shim.
But it's preferable to not clip anything off and just use a weaker throw mech, as Mark W said.

I've tried the FastTracks stock-rail notching tool, and that files the stock rail at an angle (inward and down into the stock rail), so if you push the points against the stock rail with any more force than kissing it flush it bends the point rail at the solder joint and POINK!
So I don't use that tool and just file the stock rail notch on my desk vise.

[bdennis]

Thanks for the info guys.  Hm, if I remember right I did use acid based flux on the one code 40 I built - if I remember right the fast tracks instructions said to.  Guess maybe that's not such a good idea?

Ken,
Yep.. While the flux works nicely, if not cleaned off completely it conducts and also attacks the rail. So best not to use acid based flux.

[M.C. Fujiwara]

I use and very much like Superior No.30, a water-soluble, organic flux: http://www.ccis.com/home/hn/page2.html



No strong acid so no worries about washing it off.
A 4 oz. bottle will last you a long, long time.

[peteski]

I use and very much like Superior No.30, a water-soluble, organic flux: http://www.ccis.com/home/hn/page2.html

Speaking of Superior flux, where is Robert?  I haven't seen him posting anything for quite a while now.

[Ken Rice]

Superflux!  I'll have to get some of that.  Gel or liquid?  Or both?

[reinhardtjh]

Speaking of Superior flux, where is Robert?  I haven't seen him posting anything for quite a while now.

I wondered that too.  He'd love this thread.  I checked and he had been logged in here last week but hasn't posted since November.  I hope everything is okay with him.

[peteski]

I wondered that too.  He'd love this thread.  I checked and he had been logged in here last week but hasn't posted since November.  I hope everything is okay with him.

I wouldn't think he got banned or anything like that. 

[BobS]

I thought he would have chimed in on the FEF thread.

[M.C. Fujiwara]

Superflux!  I'll have to get some of that.  Gel or liquid?  Or both?

I use the liquid, and apply it with a microbrush.
I got the 8oz bottle 5 years ago and, after building many many turnouts and using it for other soldering jobs, still have 1/3 left (with some of the "used" spilled by a fellow Free-moNster  )
So that's why I recommend the 4oz bottle.
Better size for the microbrush to reach the flux, too.
No experience with the gel.

Robert would probably know about the gel.
Surprised too haven't heard from him yet.

[John]

I wouldn't think he got banned or anything like that. 

No .. we reserve that for ....