Arnold U25C - followup and partial apology

[nkalanaga]

It seems that I owe Arnold/Hornby a partial apology because, in spite of the issues with my pair of NP U25Cs, they are NOT found in all U25Cs.  I unpacked my CB&Q and BN units today, and they ran perfectly, right out of the box.  I wired around the truck/PC board wipers anyway, but it wasn't needed.  The wheel gauge was a little tight, but no more so than is common with N scale locomotives, and they had no trouble with Micro Engineering or Peco turnouts.

My second NP unit was another matter.  Like the first, it wouldn't run right last week, so I rewired it today, and went to adjust the wipers.  The front truck was easy, but looking at the rear truck, it was obvious why the unit wouldn't run.  Like the truck itself, the wiper is asymmetric, and the truck needs one each left and right wipers.  This truck had two identical wipers, so the tab that contacts the vertical truck contact wasn't touching anything.  That side couldn't pick up power to start with.  On the other side, the tab was broken off, so even though it was the right wiper, it still couldn't make contact.  I adjusted the "correct" wiper, reversed and rebent the "wrong" wiper so it at least made good contact with the middle axle, and wired both directly to the PC board.  There's plenty of room for the wires, so they don't obstruct the truck swing.  After all of that, it runs as good as the other three.

So, it appears that the DESIGN is fine, it's the quality control that has issues, and apparently only on the NP models, at least based on a (very) limited sample.  I wonder if the NP were assembled first, and the workers were still learning how they went together?  If that's the case, then future runs, and hopefully future models, should be as good as my CB&Q and BN units.  Finances allowing, I will buy some of their U28Cs if/when they're produced.

For those using magnetic uncoupling, there may be a problem with the couplers.  They seem to have a round uncoupling pin, and the pin can easily be turned to any angle.  A MT 1015 will fit in the box, but the standard 1015 box is too thick for the locomotive.  I uncouple manually, so this doesn't bother me.  If they get too annoying I'll cut the pins off.

Another minor annoyance is that the handrails don't want to stay in their holes, but some superglue should fix that, after everything else is settled.  I'm waiting for warmer weather to paint my NP sideframes silver, which is easy to do, as the sideframes come off without taking anything else apart, but that's a preference, not a problem.

[u18b]

Thanks for the follow up.

Reminds me of the Bachmann Acela set.
The wipers come up to a board and rub on tabs.  But if the tabs are not bent down properly and pressing on the wiper--- no connection.

[nkalanaga]

That's exactly how the U25C is, except Arnold used three pieces:  The wheel wiper is connected to a vertical strip by a tab, the vertical strip rubs on the top wiper, which is soldered to the board.  If I was doing it the wheel wiper and the vertical strip would have been one piece, to eliminate the risk of corrosion breaking that contact, or just solder a wire from the wheel wiper to the board. 

But when everything is assembled and bent properly the system does work, and that's all that matters, as long as Quality Control does its job.

[spookshow]

I noticed on my NP unit that one of the vertical wipers had actually been soldered to its wheelwiper (the other three were not). Seemed like kind of a kludge to me (despite getting the job done), so you may be right about there having been a few QC problems with at least some of these.

Cheers,
-Mark

[basementcalling]

That's exactly how the U25C is, except Arnold used three pieces:  The wheel wiper is connected to a vertical strip by a tab, the vertical strip rubs on the top wiper, which is soldered to the board.  If I was doing it the wheel wiper and the vertical strip would have been one piece, to eliminate the risk of corrosion breaking that contact, or just solder a wire from the wheel wiper to the board. 

But when everything is assembled and bent properly the system does work, and that's all that matters, as long as Quality Control does its job.

Overly complicated. There is a simpler more efficient solution already tested and in use by most other manufacturers of N scale engines.

[tom mann]

I still don't understand why you guys keep saying that the design is valid.  Wipers cause friction, are prone to breakage, wear out, and pick up dirt.  QC issues just add another set of problems.

[Kisatchie]

I still don't understand why you guys keep saying that the design is valid....

Probably because it's not Micro-Trains.


Hmm... I love MTL...

[daniel_leavitt2000]

The chassis does have a very Bachmann feel to it. I'm not saying that this is bad. Mine run fine. I doubt they are made by Kader, as they own Farish, Hornby's direct competition

[GN63]

Just to confirm, my CBQ unit ran (and still runs) fine, but the NP unit I sent back -

[Chris1274]

I like the couplers. Does anyone know if they'll be separately available at some point?

[jmlaboda]

I like the couplers. Does anyone know if they'll be separately available at some point?

They are said to be coming... just don't know the details as to their release yet.

[nkalanaga]

Tom:  Wipers have worked fine on many units, and I've even made new ones a few times inthe past, much easier than replacing axle cup wipers.

Kis:  I have some MT Z locos, powering my Nn3.  They run fine.  I haven't bought the MT SW1500 so can't comment on it.  My railroad doesn't have any use for one.

GN63:  Interesting.  So it isn't just mine...

Mark:  I did that on one of my NPs, rather than take the wiper off (again) and try to bend the tab.  That's why I think that, if nothing else, they should consider a one-piece truck wiper.  It shouldn't require any redesign of the trucks, just a new wiper-maker.  It should also be more likely to stay on the truck when the wheels are removed.

Peter:  One advantage of the Arnold trucks is that the sideframes can be changed without taking the truck apart.  One can remove and replace them for painting, or for painting the wheels, and if they have two sideframes with the same wheelbase, they can be swapped easily.  Much simpler than making an entire new sideframe/coverplate/whatever else when one wants a new truck style.  I don't know what else would fit a GE Tri-Mount truck, but there were other truck wheelbases with multiple sideframe options.

[peteski]

I still don't understand why you guys keep saying that the design is valid.  Wipers cause friction, are prone to breakage, wear out, and pick up dirt. 

LOL!  Really?! You think so too?

And I was banned from the forum for stating that there were "old-school" design and that the Kato's innovative low-fricton outside bearing/pickup design would be much better choice for this type of a loco (as it is also proven by several manufacturers using Kato-like design in their models).

BTW, Hornby has these models for sale in their booth at the Springifield show this weekend (for a "show-special discounted" price of $130).

[Spikre]

 
   the GE truck was a "C" truck,cast and assembled by Adirondack.
   the wheelbase was 156",or 13'.
   it was used under E33,E44/50,E50C,U25C,U28C Phs-1.
   the F-M Train Master "C" truck had a 156" wheelbase.
   the Baldwin Delta  Double equalized truck had a 156" wheelbase.
   the Commonwealth Solid Cast "C" truck used by Baldwin,F-M,and Lima had a 156" wheelbase.
   so there are other truck designs with the same overall wheelbase,but maybe not have the center
  axle match perfectly.
   the Alco Tri-Mount Truck had a 150" wheelbase,and the term Tri-Mount may have been an Alco
  Trade Marked term.
   the Alco Tri-Mount truck to frame mounting system may have been Patented by Alco,and not used
  by any other builder,or at least not advertised as such.
            Spikre
           

[spookshow]

I still don't understand why you guys keep saying that the design is valid.  Wipers cause friction, are prone to breakage, wear out, and pick up dirt.  QC issues just add another set of problems.

"Valid"? I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. You seem to have lots of opinions, but have you actually run one of these? If not, then meh, whatever. Axle cup wipers, needlepoint axles and chassis-mounted contact strips is a great pickup scheme, but it also picks up filth, requires cleaning and adjustment, and blah, blah, blah. No pickup scheme is perfect or "forever", and at this point no one can reasonably claim that Hornby's scheme is completely inferior to anyone else's (not yet, anyway) - one major anecdotal gripe notwithstanding.

Cheers,
-Mark