So is there a fix out there to improve the Walthers Berkshire anemic pulling?

[brokemoto]

Lemosteam,

You mentioned that you bought it used.  Did you buy the old version or the new?   The old version had no traction tyre and was an anemic puller, as was the old version of the USRA 2-8-8-2 (which lacked a tyre, also).   Even HO Scale Model Railroader noted its anemic pulling power in the review of the initial LL version.   I have several of the old versions.  The old version of the LL 2-8-4 are among the smoothest, if not the smoothest, running N scale steam out there.   I have none of the new version.  I understand that they do have traction tyres.   Still, they are anemic pullers, then?

There have been, on several forums, suggestions to improve the  pulling power of the old version, most of which have been covered here.  Several did use tungsten putty, but I wonder if that would hurt more than help on a 2,9 per-cent.   The tape idea is intriguing, but I am surprised that it will last as long as its proponent claims, especially if some who try the idea have mediocre trackwork.

I would expect that adding a second tyred driver pair would help.  I have one of the old versions that is really good only for parts, send me a PM if you want to discuss it.

[Lemosteam]

Spookshow claims there has never been a TT version of this loco, mine was an undecorated so I am not sure which version it is. 

Tape is cheap, so I'll try that first.

Brokemoto, thanks for the offer!

[Rasputen]

Max, on the left is a custom size collet to hold the OD of the rim. The brass bar is held in the tailstock, and is there to apply pressure on the center of the wheel, to help keep it in the collet.  Even with this set up you have to make very light cuts, because there is very little to hold the driver with.  Since most of the driver is plastic, this was the only way I could figure out how to hold on to the metal part.

[victor miranda]

what did you use for the traction  tire?

victor

[Rasputen]

I used a Kato 2-8-2 traction tire. 

[mmagliaro]

Max, on the left is a custom size collet to hold the OD of the rim. The brass bar is held in the tailstock, and is there to apply pressure on the center of the wheel, to help keep it in the collet.  Even with this set up you have to make very light cuts, because there is very little to hold the driver with.  Since most of the driver is plastic, this was the only way I could figure out how to hold on to the metal part.

Oh!  So that collet on the left is actually only got a grip on the FLANGE?  (the "rim") ??
Yep.  I can see how that works

I've been looking at watch makers "step collets" for a while now, wondering if those would work for
something like this.     I think they would, and they often come up on eBay for reasonable prices.

[chicken45]

Just doublehead it. It's what PRR would have done.

[sizemore]

I bought the loco used an there is definite track wear.  I did forget to mention that the locomotive runs flawlessly.

The tape idea is interesting, but I assume that Sizemores video is advocating BFS. I could not listen, only watch. I think I counted 54 cars on that...

I also forgot to mention that 40" of that rise is about a 12" 180 deg curve... And that the loco slips just prior to the crest.  I can get the four Lighted PE cars up the hill but not the other with the old Rivarossi truck.  Maybe I should swap the RR trucks with the Kato...

Sorry I fired the video off while at work thought I put something in there. Its a traction tire on the last driver with no other modifications. All of the cars are NIB cars, from Atlas, Athearn, and Bluford. The layout was a double track oval of Code 55. The biggest issue this loco has with pulling is the very rigid, frame and bearing blocks, so if your track laying is less than perfect (ie. undulations) the traction tire ability is diminished.

The old Atlas/RR trucks are bears for performance, I've switched my single RR obs with MT trucks and FVM wheels and it sails compared to the RR trucks.

The S.

[randgust]

Getting my Berk (which I relettered as PM1225) was an exercise in frustration - same deal, no tractive effort.   And if you guys know anything about me, its that I'm kind of a fanatic about tractive effort.   Nice locomotive, F in traction.

So this is the locomotive that caused me to build and experiment with the powered express reefer.   And it worked, and I made a modification frame out of it in resin, and I still sell it.   You get an 8x8 power & pickup MDC or Micro-trains express reefer body (so you have two different eras) that will do about 25 cars all by itself depending on how much lead you pile in it, and you don't have to resort to the visually disturbing prospect of two 2-8-4's to handle more than 8 cars on a relatively mild grade (in my book, 2%).  The express reefer frame can either use the original Tomytec mechanism motor or an Atlas diesel motor with dual flywheels.  Either fit.

Nothing against traction tires and all that, just another alternative.   The other thing I had a devil of a time with on mine was 'nosing off' curves under heavy load, due to the placement of the tender drawbar peg at the far rear of the locomotive.   The harder it pulled the more derailment prone it was.   I fabricated a new aluminum drawbar that goes up and over the trailing truck and pegged in right behind the rear driver.   No more nosing off on curves, much steadier.   Nice locomotive now.   Contact me if you want more information, the frame is on the Randgust web page.

I don't buy excuses for a Lima 2-8-4 not handling tonnage.  If you look at http://www.steamlocomotive.com/berkshire/ you'll see an NKP Berk was rated for about 2800hp at the cylinder, had 64000 lb of tractive effort.    For comparison, a single 2800hp diesel locomotive like a U28C had about 80,000 but only at 10mph.   But either way, it's no lightweight, either in speed or tractive effort, it's just a rather anemic design in steam that to me, was mostly due to the excessively slick driver material they used.

[UP4-8-8-4]

I like the idea of cutting a grove for a TT.
I'm sold on "Bull Frog Snot" though.
Only problem with it as shipped is its way to thick. I used some hot water to thin it down, now when applied it flows super even and thin on the drivers.
My first experience with it was with the Berkshires.
Had six Rivarossi heavyweights ready to go, pulled out six Berks and all just sat there spinning their drivers.
Took one upstairs and applied the BFS to two drivers. Let them dry overnight and next day put it on the track and did several "Funny Car" burnouts on a long section of straight track to condition the new drivers.
Then hooked it to the passenger cars and it took off with them as if there was noting behind it. Even pulled all six cars up my 2% grades to other levels without any slippage.
Now all my Berks, Bachmann 2-6-6-2's and every other steamer without TT's all pulls great since using BFS.


Ernie

[u18b]

Hopefully the Bachmann will run better.

[Lemosteam]

So I tried the double stick tape method and...

SHAZAM!

Video at eleven, of whenever youtube finishes!

I know it sounds unrealistic to expect tape to hold up that well, but the PE has been running for over an hour on that 2.9% grade, with no slippage. 

I guess what I like about the idea, once I mastered the tape application, is the instant gratification that comes after you put it on the track. Totally amazed.

No cutting grooves, no lathes, no driver removal, no BFS dry time and worries about out of round.

Jdcolombo, thank you for this tip. I would add to your directions only that I took the knife edge and laid it on its side on the tape lightly pressing to fully seat the tape all around the driver and that I used a small piece of glass to cut the strips.

I'll admit I was very skeptical, but for $4.50 and twenty minutes of time, well...

You guys know I'm a mechanical nut and look for robust solutions, but pound for pound and time invested, this is for real. IT WORKS. The tape is 0.003 thick and very sticky to the tire. It leaves no residues on the glass when the thin strip is pulled up and so I assume no residue when removed from the driver.

Here are before I applied the tape and after it ran for an hour pics

[rodsup9000]

  John,
 I don't have a berk, but I think the 3rd driver is the geared one and THAT is the one you should use for the added traction. If these are like the mallets, running it the way you have it, will wear out the driverod pin holes, the added force with the traction is going through the rods.

 BTW your PE looks very nice.

[Lemosteam]

Zero deny, I can't argue with that one. What surprised me is the first pic how the wear is on the first and last drivers.  I wonder if that is the problem.

I put the tape on the last driver because that is where The S. Said he put his traction tire, so mine was a combo between the tape idea and the the last driver...

Thank you for the compliment on the PE. I appreciate that.

[jdcolombo]

So I tried the double stick tape method and...

SHAZAM!

Video at eleven, of whenever youtube finishes!

I know it sounds unrealistic to expect tape to hold up that well, but the PE has been running for over an hour on that 2.9% grade, with no slippage. 

I guess what I like about the idea, once I mastered the tape application, is the instant gratification that comes after you put it on the track. Totally amazed.

No cutting grooves, no lathes, no driver removal, no BFS dry time and worries about out of round.

Jdcolombo, thank you for this tip. I would add to your directions only that I took the knife edge and laid it on its side on the tape lightly pressing to fully seat the tape all around the driver and that I used a small piece of glass to cut the strips.

If I had a piece of glass, that's what I would have used to cut the tape.   I've been thinking about buying a 12" square 1/4"-thick piece of glass for doing things like this.  And yes, I use the back side of the knife to press down the tape, too.  Forgot about that step.

I know the tape idea strikes people as crazy, but as you have seen, it really does work.  The tape WILL eventually wear out, but once you get the hang of the process, replacing it is about a 10-minute job.  I've found the tape a lot easier than any alternative, including BFS, which I never could get to go on "just right."

John C.