Arnold/Hornby EMD SW-1

[jmlaboda]

I wonder what it would take to backdate this puppy to an SC (or an SW, the only difference being welded rather than cast frame). Two offset stacks instead of one, small high grilles, what else? I believe the overall dimensions are identical? Thoughts, anyone?

It would not be an easy build, especially since the SCs had a flat, not peaked, hood...

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2366162
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2228925
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1449643
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1880639
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1618994

[spookshow]

All claims of "state of the art" aside and given the small size of the SW1, I seriously hope hornby will consider a proven electrical pickup design (I am scared that they might repeat the primitive pickup used on the U25C)

I think all this hand-wringing over the U25C's pickup scheme is overblown. Frankly, one guy seems to be the source of this now apparently "conventional wisdom", whereas most of the rest of us haven't had any problems at all (and no offense to nkalanaga - someone I definitely respect as a forum poster and as a modeler).

Is the pickup scheme optimal? Hell, that's certainly grist for the debate mill. But is the best solution adding wires into the equation? Personally, I'd say no, but that's just me. In any case, I just have to fall back on the fact that mine (and presumably most everyone else's) run flawlessly and didn't require any tweaking whatsoever to get there.

Nkalanaga - I am not disputing your personal experiences. I'm just saying that they're probably the exception rather than the rule.

Cheers,
-Mark

[Mark5]

Mark,

In my opinion, there really has not been enough time to tell if the U25C pickup is a success.

Many locos run fine out of the box (even back in the early 70s when I first started tweaking locos). They key question is will this pickup system hold up over time? If the Arnold locos with wiper pickup are running as good as Atlas, Kato, and other "current" locos with the "modern" pick up system after 2 or 3 years of use, then I am sold! 

If Hornby is gonna stick with the wiper system, then I sincerely hope for all of us that it works well over time.

Mark

[spookshow]

In my opinion, there really has not been enough time to tell if the U25C pickup is a success.

Agreed. And in that same vein, I don't think one person's experiences should qualify it as a failure either.

Cheers,
-Mark

[JanesCustomTrain]

Maybe someone could ask modellers in Europe how that power pick up system works for them, for years already in all their Minitrix, Roco, Flischmann models.

Jane

[delamaize]

Maybe someone could ask modellers in Europe how that power pick up system works for them, for years already in all their Minitrix, Roco, Flischmann models.

Jane

Finally! Being a closet DB fan is going to give me an Insight!

So I have an old a$$ Arnold V200 and a V60 that both use a modified wiper setup, but ran like crap when I first got them, but after tearing them down, and cleaning the crap out of everything, especially the back side of the wheels and the contact points on the wipers. it made a HUGE difference, they both run as smooth as locomotives from the late 80's early 90's can, and they have both quickly have become favorites. Also I have fleischmann Steamers, a big pacific, a BR 01, and a little 0-6-0 BR 58. both have pickup that are wipers that make connections on the top of the knife edge of the flanges. these took some tweaking to make work, Overall, I had to modify both of them to pick up from the tread instear of the knife edge of the flange.

the biggest downfall to both setups has been keeping them clean. When that happens they run will, when dirty though, it becomes a hassle. With the Steamers, another problem arose, Fleischmann Tender engines use tender drives, so the locomotives are free wheeling, and pushed by the tender. The setup can add a lot of friction, and make the drivers "Bulldoze." But with a lot of tinkering and adjusting, they can be really smooth, Of course weight in the locomotive will help, the big thing is the friction between the wheels and rails has to be higher than the friction between the wheels and wipers.

Hope my rambling has helped....

[nkalanaga]

John:  I was wondering about the S2 as well.  With an improved mechanism it would be a good loco.  Mine ran fine, once I replaced the wheels and their cracked gears.  The only reason I don't use it is that it couldn't take the (ridiculous) vertical curves on my coal company's switchback.  On any normal grade it works fine.  The MiniTrix FM doesn't mind the grade changes at all...

[sirenwerks]

You kinda missed the point - My post was about pickup, not how the loco looks. Arnold has already shown us they can make a great looking model in the U25c.

No, not really.  Just countering the negativism.

[Mark5]

No, not really.  Just countering the negativism.

Ha ha ha! Very nice (I like) 

[randgust]

This is one of my custom-builds, on the modified Kato NW2 mechanism (no, the Bachmann's won't work).

These really do run well, due to the 8x8 end-axle pickups, heavy frame material, and good alloy selection for the wheels.   I was surprised how much the frame cutouts didn't compromise the performance compared to a 'stock' NW2.   Now if you don't like the Kato NW2, this isn't an improvement!  But even in these, I saw no immediate need to load the cab up with lead, although it could be done, it ran well enough without it that the open cab looked rather nice.

I only post this in the effort to dissuade that 'it can't be done' opinion purely due to size.   It can, and should, run just fine - without traction tires, additional pickups or other design exotica.    I only did the tapered rather than the stepped hood because of the immense amount of rework necessary on the chassis to do it. 



To me the whole wiper thing links into the old N scale problem of 'lurch' starts because of the high initial friction of the drive.   The less that is, the better the slow speed.   What seems to counteract that is additional truck and mechanism gearing; if you can get more starting torque out of the motor with more reduction gears in the truck itself, it seems to have minimal impact.    I was genuine surprised how well some of the 'new' Bachmann stuff runs with wipers, but with additional gear reduction.   And while I know about wearout problems, if they are set properly it surprising how well they do work.  End axles have their own problems, mostly because of the tiny surface area at the points, arcing, and carbonization that can be surprisingly bad on a lighter locomotive that doesn't have enough mass to self-polish. 

To me the real genius of end-axles is using the Kato-style wipers to 'push down' and equalize the wheels improving both contact and tractive effort, not simply because they 'aren't wipers'.  I've seen end-axle system go completely inoperative where the owners thought the right thing to do was to pull the wiper strips and hot-wire the ears into the motor system, negating the equalization feature.

I've spent an inordinate amount of time messing with tiny mechanisms, and when a manufacturer does a GOOD job on a design (and I'll include the Bachmann 44/70 design in that list) they'll always get credit from me.   They still can ball it up, but it doesn't have to be.   

[JanesCustomTrain]

...that 'it can't be done' opinion purely due to size.   It can

Yes it can, even in Z scale it can be done.

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?162053-2nd-SW1000

Jane

[MichaelWinicki]

So many Penn Centrals...

So much money... Sigh.

[Mark5]

I only post this in the effort to dissuade that 'it can't be done' opinion purely due to size.

Not sure if that opinion appears anywhere in this thread 

[daniel_leavitt2000]

John:  I was wondering about the S2 as well.  With an improved mechanism it would be a good loco.  Mine ran fine, once I replaced the wheels and their cracked gears.  The only reason I don't use it is that it couldn't take the (ridiculous) vertical curves on my coal company's switchback.  On any normal grade it works fine.  The MiniTrix FM doesn't mind the grade changes at all...

I have an S2 with new gears, wheels and motor. The thing runs better than any other engine I have by a wide, wide margin.

[tom mann]

I recall the S2 was a pretty good runner, but I remember the motor banging on the metal shell so it was a little louder than other locos.  It was my first "professional" locomotive that I purchased.