Bachmann N scale 44 ton

[peteski]

Hi peteski,

Here is the  idea; Think springs on the tops of the wheels.
Find a way to mount a pick-up that contacts the top of the wheels
and that presses down the wheels
it will take some trial to get the right amount of spring.
I have found a little is good and a lot is bad.

glory awaits you.

victor

Maybe the glory isn't for me.  Sounds like your solution is an 8-wheel independent suspension.  Softly sprung too. Good theory, but if someone can put this theoretical musing it won't be me.  But thanks for sharing - I did ask for it.

That is not realistic on a fairly lightweight model (even with tungsten weight added. The springs would have to be really soft. Plus, if the springs are soft enough to allow the model to float on them, the torque from driving the wheels would either push the wheels up or down (depending on the direction of travel).  Good idea but not really achievable (at least in my view). 

[nkalanaga]

I've never seen it done in N scale, but it has in larger scales, and may have in N - track sliders.  Make a sliding shoe to sit between the wheels on each side of each truck.  The idea is to have a larger contact area, meaning more reliable contact, which can't be done with a round wheel.

[wcfn100]

I've never seen it done in N scale, but it has in larger scales, and may have in N - track sliders.  Make a sliding shoe to sit between the wheels on each side of each truck.  The idea is to have a larger contact area, meaning more reliable contact, which can't be done with a round wheel.

The old Atlas E8 had something like that.



Jason

[peteski]

Didn't the Atlas loco (was it Rivarossi?) also have some idler axles (which would be ideal as a springing electric pickups)?  It was also much heftier than the 44-tonner.

[C855B]

I've never seen it done in N scale, but it has in larger scales, and may have in N - track sliders. ...

Yes, the Atlas/Rivarossi E8 but also the C-Liner, and by extension, possibly some early Euro models.

Didn't the Atlas loco (was it Rivarossi?) also have some idler axles (which would be ideal as a springing electric pickups)?  It was also much heftier than the 44-tonner.

The entire front truck was idler axles.   (Only the two rear axles were powered.)

[peteski]

Yes, the Atlas/Rivarossi E8 but also the C-Liner, and by extension, possibly some early Euro models.

The entire front truck was idler axles.   (Only the two rear axles were powered.)

That's right!  Was that the one with a motor in a vertical position with the worm engaging the gears of the adjacent axles (one on each side of the worm)?  Or was it the one with a thin pancake motor with its shaft parallel with the trucks' axles with no worm used at all?

The pickup-only front truck then could be designed in such a way that the unpowered front wheels could be suspended with enough vertical play to follow the uneven track.

[C855B]

Yup, you got it. They had the short-life vertical can motor with the worm down in the truck. I must have nearly a dozen of them in the junk box, most bought new.

The rear truck also picked up one side, connected to the frame through the motor armature. You'll notice in Jason's pic the copper plate between the center axle. That was added in the second production run to improve the pickup from the rear; on the initial run it was a tiny circlip you would immediately lose the first time it was disassembled.

[victor miranda]

Maybe the glory isn't for me.  Sounds like your solution is an 8-wheel independent suspension.  Softly sprung too. Good theory, but if someone can put this theoretical musing it won't be me.  But thanks for sharing - I did ask for it.

That is not realistic on a fairly lightweight model (even with tungsten weight added. The springs would have to be really soft. Plus, if the springs are soft enough to allow the model to float on them, the torque from driving the wheels would either push the wheels up or down (depending on the direction of travel).  Good idea but not really achievable (at least in my view).

I am pretty sure what I think I said was not what you heard.

well on to other things.

victor

[peteski]

I am pretty sure what I think I said was not what you heard.

well on to other things.

victor

I guess we speak different language.  Thanks for the clarification on this.

[nkalanaga]

Jason and others:  OK, it has been done.  Did it work well enough to consider for a modern light-weight model, or was the mechanism so bad that one couldn't tell?  I never owned an Atlas E8 or C-liner, so have no experience with them.

[C855B]

The mechanism was so bad you couldn't tell.

I didn't care for the pickup shoes, actually. They looked clumsy and detracted from the appearance. I had no issues with pickup on the first-run models without them. Maybe the trackwork on my little layout then was better than typical? I dunno... they ran smoothly enough for me, bearing in mind the minimum speed was 20-30 smph with that awful no-reduction drive system.

[wcfn100]

Did it work well enough to consider for a modern light-weight model, or was the mechanism so bad that one couldn't tell? 

I was 9, I don't remember. 

Jason

[Bsklarski]

I run a "hobbyshop" with my sister, so the distributor moves things from time to time, so thats why they are cheap. The 70ton units are normal price. I may wait for that SW1 then. All my current units, GP7s F40s E8s all run fine on non powered frogs. Not looking to go nuts on this layout with wiring, ect

[nkalanaga]

Mike and Jason:  That's what I was afraid of.  Is it any wonder that my railroad ran for years with MiniTrix Fs for its main power?  Two or more wired together were almost unstallable, they ran smoothly at relatively low speeds, and could easily be taken apart to remove the dust and cat hair. 

I still have a MiniTrix FM switching my coal company, because it runs better than the Arnold Alco, and the Atlas Shay seems too fragile to leave out.  Maybe my new Atlas Alco, when it arrives, will take its place.  I've heard great things about the Con-Cor/Kato PA-1, but my pair never did work well.  I suspect part of that was the long trucks and my sharp curves, poor track, and generally dirty environment.  The mechanically very similar Kato electrics run well on my current layout, so it wasn't the design as such.  The MiniTrix units were simply more forgiving.   

[basementcalling]

My 70 tonner ran for about 10 minutes and then just died totally dead. No signs of life.