CSX Hanover Subdivision

[mu26aeh]

D720/721 Is Cumberland to Hagerstown and return  to staging.  797/795 Is hanover to hagerstown and vice versa.  Local to Security for cement.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Ok, so lets talk about yard utilization then.

I'm assuming all outbound loads or emptiess go to Cumberland via D720/D721? Right?

If that's the case, the only real work that has to happen is breaking D720 down into D979 and the local to Security.

I'm assuming they pre-block the cars too since they've got the tracks, right?

That means that in your yard, what you'll want to do is have a track for each on layout destination/industry, so... (and remind me if I'm wrong here)
1. Solo cup
2. MMID interchange
3. Hampstead
4. Yorkrail
5. Downtown Hanover
6. GETY
7. Bittinger
8. Daltile
9. AgCom
10. Security

I'm assuming there's a yard job called to do this sorting, right? If so, I'm assuming that they went on duty a shift before the D795 crew goes on duty so that they can break down the previous night's D721.

Lets start with what you'd need in an ideal world.
1. A track for cars for Solo cup
2. A track for cars for MMID interchange
3. A track for cars for Hampstead
4. A track for cars for Yorkrail
5. A track for cars for Downtown Hanover
6. A track for cars for GETY
7. A track for cars for Bittinger
8. A track for cars for Daltile
9. A track for cars for AgCom
10. A track for cars for Security
11. A track to hold D720's inbound cars.
12. A track to hold D721's outbound cars (all incoming cars would be set off here when a local pulls in at the end of the previous session).

On your plan:
Track 1 would be good for the outbound D721 cars.
Track 2 should be left open
Track 3 would be good for inbound D720 cars.
Tracks 4-8 can be used to classify cars for the locales.

You don't have enough classification tracks there to do 1:1 so it can't be perfectly efficient. But then again, the REAL Hagerstown doesn't seem to have enough tracks either. So the tracks that exist could be used fluidly. For example, first the D720 cars get pulled and all the Security, Bittinger, YorkRail and MMID cars get classified into the class tracks with anything that's not one of those going back in the D720 track. Once you get through everything for those locales, you pull the D720 track again and now classify additional cars on top of the already classed blocks. So, for example, you now put the Agcom cars against the Security cars, the Hanover cars against the Bittinger cars, and the Hampstead cars against the YorkRails. When it's time to D975 to depart, he'll come in and grab the cars from each of the classification tracks, which, when pulled in the right order, will have the train pre-blocked for him.

Basically, what I'm saying here is that you should be in good shape with what you've got there. Another classification track wouldn't hurt, but isn't really necessary. Because the Hanover Sub is a rather sleepy line you don't have to worry about the complexities of dealing with many conflicting moves. That's where REAL complexity often crops up (like the need to have an east and west drill track).

Now, the next question is... is that the most effective layout of the tracks? By that I mean: do you maximize your use of linear distance with what you've got planned and does it even matter? 

The first thing you need to think about is what is going to be your limiting factor. My guess is that the total length of the thing needs to be long enough to accomodate the inbound D720 / outbound D721. That's a big challenge because that train will essentially be as long as the total number of cars coming and going from the layout. You'll need to do the math to figure out how big THAT needs to be. My guess is that that track will need to be as long as the combination of all of your classification tracks (yikes, I know...).

Once you have that figured out you can figure out if your other tracks are long enough. My guess is that they will be because that track has to be so long, but you'll want to check (by thinking about the total number of cars for each destination or destination pair that will need to get stuffed into it. You've got options there though if for some reason they do turn out to be too short. You can do a compound ladder, a pinwheel or even make those tracks stub ended (since you're always working the east end).

So, that's a lot to think about, and I'm happy to help with it.

[DeltaBravo]

Once you have that figured out you can figure out if your other tracks are long enough. My guess is that they will be because that track has to be so long, but you'll want to check (by thinking about the total number of cars for each destination or destination pair that will need to get stuffed into it. You've got options there though if for some reason they do turn out to be too short. You can do a compound ladder, a pinwheel or even make those tracks stub ended (since you're always working the east end).

So, that's a lot to think about, and I'm happy to help with it.
[/quote]


Ed you can use what you learn here to help me as well.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Ed you can use what you learn here to help me as well.

Well, you'd think so... but Adam's railroad is VERY different from yours!

[mu26aeh]

That means that in your yard, what you'll want to do is have a track for each on layout destination/industry, so... (and remind me if I'm wrong here)
1. Solo cup
2. MMID interchange
3. Hampstead
4. Yorkrail
5. Downtown Hanover
6. GETY
7. Bittinger
8. Daltile
9. AgCom
10. Security

No Solo Cup.  It was on original plan that Bob drew, but I omitted it because it just didn't fit right where he drew it.  Hampstead/Amerigas and MMID interchange will all come out of staging (Baltimore end). 
No Getty on this layout, just not enough room.  (Damn, isn't that always the problem  )  Although, thought has crossed my mind to have a spur at the top of the helix possibly but probably won't come to fruition. 
Since Dal-Tile, Mortons Buildings, and Utz Quality Foods are all facing points for the train that leaves Hagerstown D797, those cars can be blocked together and dropped at Center St for the next westbound D795.

[mu26aeh]

That's pretty much what I was thinking though Ed, using your Windsor St yard as a model from the one time I sorted the yard for you.  Since I'm only modeling the Hanover Sub, you can cut out the B702 that is the Highfield Turn, Q15/16 that is the intermodal that goes up to Chambersburg, the Lurgan turn that goes to Shippensburg and various other jobs that come out of Hagerstown and it's including switching/blocking.

[wm3798]

Man, this conversation is giving me flashbacks!

The key to having a good yard operation is fluidity and flexibility.  Establishing a certain track as fixed position for any particular train is probably a mistake.  You always end up having more cars coming in than you have room for, and another track that might be longer idling away, or vise versa.

Better to determine which track will hold what destinations on an availability basis.  This gives you flexibility.  After awhile, you'll get a handle on which trains need more or less room to sort through, which helps you set targets, but without having a hard and fast identity for each class track.

I used a very simple set up with a long clear acrylic bin that I could mark up with a dry erase marker to designate the destinations for each track.  As the cars got sorted, the car cards went into the bin behind the track number.  Having a single long bin without dividers made it easy to use a track for overflow, pre blocking for several destinations, etc.

I was always bummed that I never did host a full ops session with that yard, but I enjoyed the hell out of running it myself. 

I'm looking forward to seeing how yours works out.
Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Man, this conversation is giving me flashbacks!

Right?? I love it!!!

The key to having a good yard operation is fluidity and flexibility.  Establishing a certain track as fixed position for any particular train is probably a mistake.  You always end up having more cars coming in than you have room for, and another track that might be longer idling away, or vise versa.

Better to determine which track will hold what destinations on an availability basis.  This gives you flexibility.  After awhile, you'll get a handle on which trains need more or less room to sort through, which helps you set targets, but without having a hard and fast identity for each class track.

I used a very simple set up with a long clear acrylic bin that I could mark up with a dry erase marker to designate the destinations for each track.  As the cars got sorted, the car cards went into the bin behind the track number.  Having a single long bin without dividers made it easy to use a track for overflow, pre blocking for several destinations, etc.

Totally agree, however... Adam's got a very controlled environment. Four trains a day, give or take.  Not 1000 like YOUR Hagerstown was designed to handle (maybe a bit excessively, but then again, I had learned hard lessons from the old 4 track Ridgely).

[Ed Kapuscinski]

That's pretty much what I was thinking though Ed, using your Windsor St yard as a model from the one time I sorted the yard for you.  Since I'm only modeling the Hanover Sub, you can cut out the B702 that is the Highfield Turn, Q15/16 that is the intermodal that goes up to Chambersburg, the Lurgan turn that goes to Shippensburg and various other jobs that come out of Hagerstown and it's including switching/blocking.

Sweet, sounds like you're good to go then my man.

Just make sure you're good on track lengths and start gluing!

[mu26aeh]

Sweet, sounds like you're good to go then my man.

Just make sure you're good on track lengths and start gluing!

Another problem when you only got so much space to work with    (having to cut out all those unrelated jobs)

I'm hoping to get some time this weekend to finalize the yard tracks and tack them down.  And Ken made mention of something last weekend when were discussing our plan of attack, once I get these two sections finalized, I can simply run a loop of track around the wall and I can run trains again, and work on the helix and second level as time becomes available. 

And to the plan of attack.  We are hoping for a work session on Sunday and first up will be to attack building a bulkhead around my ductwork and center I beam in the basement ceiling to prepare for running track grid for drop ceiling.  DC materials were purchased last week and today I got some lumber and drywall to build the bulkhead.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I'm hoping to get some time this weekend to finalize the yard tracks and tack them down.  And Ken made mention of something last weekend when were discussing our plan of attack, once I get these two sections finalized, I can simply run a loop of track around the wall and I can run trains again, and work on the helix and second level as time becomes available. 

That's smart!

Lee did that for a long time on his layout, going so far as to even create a temporary yard.

It was my experience with that yard that lead me to be such a pain in his a$$ about its replacement (and then made me the yard analyst I have become).

It all worked really well and helped keep interest up.

[mu26aeh]

I found something I hate more then ballasting.

Mudding....




We got a later start this morning, and then found out when I grabbed studs, I got the pre-cut ones, ie not 8 footers.  Ideally, I should have gotten a couple 10's.  Made for a couple extra cuts.  On the drywall, maybe I should have gotten 10's as well. 

I was able to lay Center St out as well Saturday night.  I ended up relaying it twice though.  I purchased used code 55 turnouts and didn't realize until last night that the previous owner filed off the code 80 part of the web/rail and most of the turnouts in the yard were these.  I don't have any transition joiners so I swapped out all of them with code 80 turnouts I already had.  Of course, I should have known I can flatten the joiner and solder the rail to the top of now flat joiner.  I might do that, but still might sell them and get the regular 80 turnouts.  I hate to have to unsolder them if turnout breaks/goes bad for some reason.  Hagerstown Yard did not get any attention as I had planned.

[Bendtracker1]

Wait till you start sanding!   

[davefoxx]

Wait till you start sanding!   

A wet sponge will save you from a ton of dust.  Oh, and nothing’s worse than ballasting. 

DFF

[wm3798]

The trick is to feather it out in very thin coats so it dries reasonably smooth.  It takes patience and more time than you want it to, but in the end it's worth it.

At least that's what they tell me.  I usually put up sheetrock with a sledge hammer and finish it with snow shovel...

And no, you don't ever want 10' sheetrock...  especially if you're humping it down into the basement.

Lee