New MR Project layout

[MichaelWinicki]

As far as the long train coming off the branch and the inability of the staging tracks to support it...

You could simply start your operating session with it as it appears– coming out of staging onto the main.

[jwb]

Besougloff says quite a bit in the editorial for the January issue, as well as in the text for the article itself, about his reasons for picking an N scale door layout based in the Midwest. Whether you agree with the reasons or not, he's clearly thought them through, and he also seems to have worked them out with David Popp's input as well. Among his reasons was simply doing something recognizably different from earlier years. I was building my first layouts in the 1960s, before N was really much of an option, but I had in fact thought through a very similar idea on a 4 x 8 in HO, with a branch line striking diagonally through the middle of the layout, crossing the "main" on a diamond on the other side.

If I were in the same place and age now as in the 1960s, I would give that layout a serious look.

Look at the companion article in that issue, though -- it revisits the mechanical interlocking that then-Editor Paul Larson built in a 1961 issue. I think that's recognized, along with the Bob Darwin superdetail pieces and the various narrow gauge construction articles, as something like the high point of MR in its history. Is this a message from Besougloff? 

[mmagliaro]

Now that I've received my issue in the mail, I've looked at this layout.
Regarding the expense of all the turnouts for a "starter" layout, one should note that if you actually built this thing,
you would not have to buy and install all those turnouts initially.  You could built the mainline, and with only about 6-8
of the turnouts, you could get in some passing tracks and a few sidings to industries to provide for some interesting
work to do.  Then, as your skills and budget allow, you could add more of the turnouts.

I rather like this, because it can be built more simply at first, and then increase in complexity over time.

[GimpLizard]

As for price, when I entered the hobby you could purchase a Atlas 3 car diesel freight set with a E8 diesel, hopper car, boxcar, caboose, 11 sections of curved track, 1 re-railer track, 1 straight track section and a power pack for $19.98. In the Nov-Dec 2014 NSR there is an ad for "The Bachmann Stallion" train set for $149, which is pretty much the modern day version of that Atlas N scale train set of 1968. Also back in 1969, Atlas N scale remote turnouts were $3.50 each and manual turnouts were $2.50 each. According to the Census department Median household income rose to approximately $7,700 in 1968, I'll let someone else figure out the math on weather it's more expensive today to build a small layout.     

Okay, this ain't strictly scientific, but comparing my current annual salary to the 1968 median and then multiplying that by the $19.98 Atlas starter set, from back then, gets you up to $116.77 today's cost. A bit short of the $149 for the "Stallion". However... keep in mind the overwhelming improvements to quality since 1968. How many of those Atlas starter sets wound up tossed under the bed after the train managed to successfully make it 1/3 of the way around the oval... before derailing?

As for this latest MRR project? Two thumbs up from me. I like smaller, more manageable layouts. I'm way to lazy (and lack the talent) for an empire. This is right up my alley. (Though I wonder if I could change the local to North Dakota/Montana? And the prototype to Great Northern? Nothing against the "Q", mind you. Just partial to the GN.)

HCD's unit!!!

[randgust]

After studying that track plan...

If you'd take the entire branch - and elevate it so that you could clear 2" (and maybe lower the main on the staging side an inch), you'd have enough clearance to take the 'branch' and get it over top of the 'main' at the rear left backdrop.   If you'd get that at least to the table edge then you've managed to lengthen the branch trains a couple cars, set up potential for expansion off of the 'branch' to a drop-shelf layout expansion beside it, and open up some more space for staging off of the main.   It's not a bad plan at all as-is, and with a couple slight tweaks could be even better.   I like the concept of stuffing the branch through the backdrop. 

At first glance I thought the branch connected to the main staging yard, took a second look to prove it actually didn't.  I think I'd prefer to see the 'branch' on a separate expansion to the side as an operating concept.

I'll never diss HCD's.  I got into N because I couldn't fit a 4x8 into my bedroom as a teenager.  A 3x6 would fit.   I'd been in HO for years but the basement environment where I grew up was just too dirty to sustain an actual layout.   My current 'big' layout is 5'6" x 8', but it's fit into three different rooms at three different houses without ever having to be demolished.

[CVSNE]

Another HCD for N scale?  Is that what they think of us? 

Interesting point. Of course the one criticism I got of the Androscoggin Central in the Second Edition of my N Scale book was the fact that it WASN'T built on a hollow-core door!

Speaking of the AC - when I saw the track plan of this latest MR project layout I immediately thought of the AC. The  "pass through" track formed a portion of a route for the "secondary" railroad in the case of the AC - but it could easily have been a branch of the "main" railroad. I'll reserve final judgement until they share the operating scheme either in print or via MRVP - but my initial reaction is that the AC had far more operating possibilities in about the same total square footage.

And most of those guys tend to have soybeans and wheat growing out their ears - so it's high time they got to a do a Midwestern layout with a granger theme....

Marty McGuirk

[nkalanaga]

GimpLizard:  The math is close enough for me.  And your comments on quality improvements are also important.  It sounds like prices today aren't that far from what they were almost 50 years ago.

As for building the layout as a GN town, I don't see why not.  Midwest farm towns tended to look much the same regardless of the railroad, and there's nothing in the MR pictures that looks state-specific. 

[GimpLizard]

Marty, at the risk of looking like an idiot (risk?), what is the formal title of your N scale book? And is it still available? I search "Androscoggin Central" at Amazon and came u empty.

[davefoxx]

Marty, at the risk of looking like an idiot (risk?), what is the formal title of your N scale book? And is it still available? I search "Androscoggin Central" at Amazon and came u empty.

Try this link: http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12428.html

DFF

[CVSNE]

Try this link: http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12428.html

DFF

Dave,
Thanks.
I should add the blurb about "build a 4 x 8..." isn't accurate - the layout is actually a little less than 3 x 7 or so.
Marty

[sirenwerks]

I don't know about them, but it's clear what you think of us.   

Sincerely,
The HCD Collective

HCD Collective,

Note the word "another", indicating repetition, a word that has important meaning in my message.  I think small layouts are great, but repeating that in N scale sends a message that N scale is only for those with space limitations.  Granted, that is one of its obvious benefits but the MR staff could have just have easily selected Z scale for such a project, no?  It hasn't done a Z scale layout yet.  Oh wait, Z scale is pretty cost-prohibitive to entry-level modelers and still pretty limited in selection.

I'm not the type to believe conspiracy theories, but I feel N scale is being pegged as the starter scale, not just this as a starter layout.  And since you cherry picked from my message to make your point, perhaps you'll go back and note that there's more to it.  If this isn't just a starter layout, how about MR staff take on some Q-specific projects that require more than off-the-shelf purchases to - like the mentioned nose headlights (an important detail on Q hood units) and its more distinctive waycars - add richness to the pretty layout they've created.  They probably won't.  They'll do it in HO because it's easier, but they won't try their hand in N.  Like someone pointed out, why couldn't they have done the Beer Line layout in N, imagine all that Cream City urban grit that would have fit in, but wait, no one makes the right FM units...  N scale's become what HO was during the heyday of O but MR doesn't have the chutzpah to push it.

[jwb]

It's worth pointing out again that Besougloff has said quite a  bit, in video and in writing, about the reasons for picking the project layout he did. One that he stressed was the need to complete a layout in a 6-month period, with the staff working on the project continuing with their normal assignments as well.

It's possible to speculate on why MR has occasionally had much bigger project layouts, like the Clinchfield, or the one Sperandeo did on the Santa Fe in Oklahoma (although I believe the scope of that one was cut back during the project). But most have been in the 4 x 8 - 5 x 9 range or smaller, such as HCDs, in some measure I would guess because that's what you can complete when you're working to deadline over a strict 6-month schedule.

I'm not sure if this means MR is pigeonholing N in some sort of beginner's ghetto. I think it's possible to think a little too much scale-specific -- I like good modeling in any scale and want to learn what's to be found from an article or forum in any scale. I don't think MR is too far off with that.

[Teditor]

They have done a Z scale project layout some years back.

If they had of done a large layout, there would then be complaints about not being practical for the 'average' modeller.

Ted (Teditor) Freeman

[Dave V]

HCD Collective,

Note the word "another", indicating repetition, a word that has important meaning in my message.  I think small layouts are great, but repeating that in N scale sends a message that N scale is only for those with space limitations.  Granted, that is one of its obvious benefits but the MR staff could have just have easily selected Z scale for such a project, no?  It hasn't done a Z scale layout yet.  Oh wait, Z scale is pretty cost-prohibitive to entry-level modelers and still pretty limited in selection.

I'm not the type to believe conspiracy theories, but I feel N scale is being pegged as the starter scale, not just this as a starter layout.  And since you cherry picked from my message to make your point, perhaps you'll go back and note that there's more to it.  If this isn't just a starter layout, how about MR staff take on some Q-specific projects that require more than off-the-shelf purchases to - like the mentioned nose headlights (an important detail on Q hood units) and its more distinctive waycars - add richness to the pretty layout they've created.  They probably won't.  They'll do it in HO because it's easier, but they won't try their hand in N.  Like someone pointed out, why couldn't they have done the Beer Line layout in N, imagine all that Cream City urban grit that would have fit in, but wait, no one makes the right FM units...  N scale's become what HO was during the heyday of O but MR doesn't have the chutzpah to push it.

You're over-thinking this.  N scale is no more pigeon-holed into HCDs than HO is into 4x8s.  It's the most popular size to start with, but I wouldn't read anything into it.

[glakedylan]

this

+1

You're over-thinking this.  N scale is no more pigeon-holed into HCDs than HO is into 4x8s.  It's the most popular size to start with, but I wouldn't read anything into it.