Please help me choose a decoder. Atlas RS11

[craigolio1]

I'm considering what decoder to use in a locomotive I'm about to finish. It's an Atlas RS-11 chassis. I need four functions. Sound is not needed. Good motor control is a must as this line loco will be the power for a 10 car passenger train that will eventually have to climb my as yet unbuilt helix. In the future I'll build a power car if I have to but for now I'm looking for reccomendations for the best non sound decoder that will give me the best performance out of this chassis.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Thanks.

Craig.

[craigolio1]

TCS AMD4?

[davefoxx]

In addition to the TCS AMD4, assuming you're working with a DCC ready frame, the Digitrax DN163A0 should also satisfy your needs.  It has forward and reverse lights plus six functions according to the spec sheet:

http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dn163a0/

DFF

[craigolio1]

Thanks for the recommendation.

As I don't have an operating layout, I havn't had occasion to run and test any decoders. I recall hearing somewhere that the back emf on Digitrax decoders causes noise or spotty operation.  I can't quite recall. I'd love to hear people who have used various decoders.

Once I settle on a decoder that is good, I'd like to standardize my whole fleet.  I'm using LocSound for my sound equipped locos. But I havn't decided on non-sound.

I like the Digitrax option.  Or any drop in for that matter.

Craig

[peteski]

If you are planning on utilizing lighting effects (like rotating beacons or alternating ditch lights) using LEDs, stay away from Digitrax 163 (3rd generation) decoder. They do not produce good lighting effects with LEDs.  Only the latest (6th generation) Digitrax decoders are supposedly designed to properly work with LED light effects.

All current TCS decoders handle LED light effects properly.

Pretty much all N scale decoders have motor outputs rated around 1 Amp - more than enough for handling any N scale loco.  I have not seen any problems with BEMF on either Digitrax or TCS decoders. But many recent models include RFI suppressing components (chokes and capacitors) on the motor circuit. These often interfere with BEMF functionality and make the speed control behave erratically. But Atlas locos do not have these components included.

There are also CV registers to fine tune the BEMF to each particular loco (if you are willing to spend the time and play with them). I never found a reason to mess around with them - factory settings work fine.

[jdcolombo]

I have used a variety of decoders over the years and would rank them as follows in terms of motor control:

1.  ESU  LokPilot
2.  Lenz Silver mini (though you would need the Lenz Gold for 4 functions)
3.  TCS
4.  Digitrax (and a distant 4th, at that, though I admit that I haven't tried the 6th generation decoders).

Only TCS and Digitrax make drop-in boards for the RS11 model, however, so if you want to go that route, I'd choose TCS.  Over the years, I've found hard-wiring results in the most bullet-proof install, but I can certainly understand why a drop-in board would be preferred.

John C.

[craigolio1]

I plan to use precisely 0 lighting effects. Just in off. I just need four functions and good motor control. I'm not against hardwiring and I love bullet proof installed. The way Atlas' motors interface with the board is silly. I had planed on doing something to improve that anyway so maybe  I'm better off with a hardwire job. Removing the circuit board makes room for more wires.

I never thought of Lenz or ESU. Hmmmm. I'll look into the prices.

Thanks for the input.

Craig

[jdcolombo]

The Lenz Gold is pretty pricey - about $50.  The ESU LokPilot micro is more reasonable - $34.   However, the LokPilot will require that you solder a fourth function wire to a pad on the decoder if you really need 4 functions - it has 4 available, but only 3 are pre-wired using the 8-pin NEM harness.  But either the Lenz or the ESU will offer superior motor control to TCS or Digitrax, IMHO.

To give you a sense of how good ESU's motor control is, take a look at the following YouTube video, which shows my sound-equipped RS3 in action; ignore the sound (the LokPilot has the same motor control circuitry as the LokSound decoder) and watch how the engine creeps as it couples up to the train at about the one-minute mark:

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John C.

[peteski]

The Lenz Gold is pretty pricey - about $50.  The ESU LokPilot micro is more reasonable - $34.   However, the LokPilot will require that you solder a fourth function wire to a pad on the decoder if you really need 4 functions - it has 4 available, but only 3 are pre-wired using the 8-pin NEM harness.  But either the Lenz or the ESU will offer superior motor control to TCS or Digitrax, IMHO.

You get what you paid for? 
I have one Lenz Gold decoder (bought several years ago) - I haven't tried it yet.

[craigolio1]

Wow that's awesome. And I did pay attention to the sound. It's awesome too.  I love how Alcos always sound like they are about to self destruct.

Anyway, my biggest concern is my locos ability to pull it's 10 car consist up the helix. I know grade, radius, and weight play the biggest part but is motor control going to help?

[peteski]

Anyway, my biggest concern is my locos ability to pull it's 10 car consist up the helix. I know grade, radius, and weight play the biggest part but is motor control going to help?

Whether some locomotive is powered using DC or DCC that will not change its pulling ability (no matter what brand of decoder you are using).. It is not like DCC decoders give you some fancy anti-slip wheel control.  The only possible change to a locomotive which would affect its pulling ability would be if you removed some metal from the frame to install a decoder (and/or speaker). That would make the loco lighter, changing its pulling ability. If you are using a light-board replacement plug-n-play decoder then the weight stays the same.  If you are really worried, you could simply install a traction tire on one or two of its wheels.  Problem solved (in DC and DCC).

[craigolio1]

I kind of new that was the case. I just hoped that finer motor control might make the wheels less likely to slip.

I never considered adding a traction tire or two. The wheels are stock atlas wheels with the flanges turned down a little to run on ME code 40 flex track. If I were to cut a groove in a couple of wheels, what would you suggest I use for a tire?

I haven't looked at the chassis in a while but I recall that I removed a little metal because I chopped the hood, and maybe some off of the rear for a possible drop in sound decoder. But that's it. I considered putting Loc sound in this one but decided not to because I knew I needed all of the weight , and more if possible. That space would be used for the ESU decoder.

[peteski]

Too bad that your models aren't the original Kato/Atlas RS-11s - they had one traction tire per truck already installed. But the overall electric pickup system was not as reliable, and they weren't the low-friction design. Still, they ran quite well (one of the best N scale running locos back in the 80s).

As far as the traction tires go, best choice would be the ones made for the above mentioned Kato/Atlas RS-11/RS-3.  But those are probably unavailable.  But there are plenty of small traction tires available.  Most are for 33/36 scale wheels (but they should stretch to the size needed for your loco).  Ones which come to mind are for Bachmann Acela or any of the Kato or Tomix Shinkansen (bullet train) sets.  Also, many European N scale locos (diesel or electric) have traction tires (and spares are available).  Those should be close in size to what is needed for the RS-11.

[craigolio1]

Great. Thanks for the tips.