Atlas PS-1 Boxcars now hitting the shelves...

[sirenwerks]

The Atlas car isn't a foob.  It matches the photo of the PS-1 in the color guide with 10 panels.

Not having an auto plant online has no bearing on whether cars could be assigned in that service.  This has been coming up a bit lately, and people just need to get that notion out of their heads.

Jason,

I was using the Thompson book, which is a more trustworthy resource than the MSCGs IMO, when I IDed the car.  I thought I had matched the number series.  The car in the pic was a 12 panel PS1 with the same door and side sill as the Atlas car.  I'm happy to correct myself when I revisit the resource tonight to confirm my post, but the GN historically leaned heavily towards 12 panel 40' box cars.

And I get car assignments, thanks.  But the GN wouldn't assign cars to pool service for pass through traffic.  The statement Spikre made referenced assignment to an auto pool and GN had no online auto plants and I don't believe they even had parts manufacturers online, so GN would have routed other RRs' pool cars between Chicago and the west, like WP's Ford plant in the Bay Area or plants on the ATSF in LA-LA Land.

[Spikre]

 
   there was a Ford Plant in Minneapolis for years.
   but the GN cars could have carried Batteries,rear axles,wheels,
   that could have had suppliers located on line.
   Appliance service could have had component suppliers any where
   along GN lines.
    but Appliance service is even more a mystery than Auto Parts service.
   then if Auto Parts it could have been GM,Chrysler or American Motors,
   even Jeep parts suppliers.
   Tractors and Heavy Trucks would come under Auto Parts, Erie/EL had an I-H
   assembly Plant in Bolis Ohio.
    more reasearch is needed to get this sorted out.
       Spikre
       
     

[nkalanaga]

Jason:  "Return to C&EI"  So it does.  Thank you.  The few I'd been able to actually read data on didn't have anything, but they were mostly taken post-BN.  I never thought to look at the MS guide.

[wcfn100]

And I get car assignments, thanks.  But the GN wouldn't assign cars to pool service for pass through traffic.

Sure they would. That's sort of what a 'pool' is.

I'm going to see if the ORER has any good information about pool service cars and how they moved and get paid. I only know a little about it and would surely muck it up.

Jason

[wazzou]

Jason:  "Return to C&EI"  So it does.  Thank you.  The few I'd been able to actually read data on didn't have anything, but they were mostly taken post-BN.  I never thought to look at the MS guide.

I posted it first.   

[BN1970]

From a posting on the old Atlas web forum, by the late Greg Mahlkov (3rdRail ? I am not sure) as below: --Brian

"By agreement, All of the North American 'Appliance Cars' were operated in a large 'shared' pool, for instant shipping availability, so as an example, a CB&Q car hauling washers or refrigerators from the Whirlpool Mfg. sight in Kankakee, Illinois - could be found side by side with an SCL car or ... a Santa Fe car or an IC or a UP car, all in the fancy paint of the day.

One week a car could be found in the rain in Iowa or the sun of California and the next week be found in the cold of Canada and the next be in Florida or on a frozen Illinois mainline.

Great Northern's lone 15 PS1 40' Boxcars were dedicated to this service and were painted in the famous Empire Builder orange & green 'Loader' scheme.

These cars were rarely seen on the GN as a result, but could be found all over the country... As a 'general 'rule, this is a good example for your 'Ugly Duckling' boxcars on your layout... 40' "High Cube's" in every road name except yours!!!"

[wcfn100]

That's not a bad synopsis.  The only Gregg left out is that all the cars (in his example) would then be returned back to Kanakee, IL.

I scanned one of the sheets of the CGW assigned cars.  It's not too exciting but it looked like the best one to try the OCR on my scanner.



You can see how a cars equipment comes into play and how blocks of cars would get assigned.

I try one of more interesting pages later.

Jason

[sirenwerks]

Sure they would. That's sort of what a 'pool' is.

Pool participation requires the participant have a paying shipper/shippee online.  A RR that is simply a bridge for such traffic is not going to provide expensive equipment for the cents per mile it makes on such traffic pass through traffic.  They may lease cars into pool service, but aren't going to contribute them.  Appliance pool as an example, if GN has Amana or some other manufacturer online to pick up from, or a major warehousing concern or retailer to ship to, it makes sense to contribute cars to a pool because the origination/termination rate means more $.  At least that's the way I understand rail shipping rate structures.

[wcfn100]

  At least that's the way I understand rail shipping rate structures.

I think this lives outside standard shipping structures, which may explain why I can't find anything in the ORER and why it doesn't make common sense with the rules we do know.

You can think of pool service the same way the California Zephyr was divided I guess.  Three RRs on one route that contributed cars based on their percentage of trackage for the route.  The money then would be divided the same way more or less. 

In this case I started looking for C&EI cars that might be routed the same way as the GN (if they were part of the same pool).  While they do list 40' DF cars in the ORER, it's a small number and haven't found any pictures of one yet. 

Hopefully someday there will be a big database anyone can contribute to to help with this stuff.  I've thought about it for tank car leasees and autorack/flat car numbers, but a DB for car pool and routing could be very interesting too.

Jason

[garethashenden]

On a different subject, what is the significance of "DF" on the sides of some of these cars?

[Kisatchie]

On a different subject, what is the significance of "DF" on the sides of some of these cars?

DF means "damage free," indicating the car has some type of internal restraints to keep the load secure. Some railroads call it "dependable freight."


Hmm... dependable,
damage free freight...

[sirenwerks]

You can think of pool service the same way the California Zephyr was divided I guess.  Three RRs on one route that contributed cars based on their percentage of trackage for the route.  The money then would be divided the same way more or less. 

And that's how I explained it.  The WP, D&RGW, and Burlington all contributed cars to a train which stopped at stations along each road's route, where passenger revenues were generated for each directly.  No other road contributed train-matching cars because the train didn't stop at any of their stations.  No auto parts freight initiation or termination points on the GN from which to generate decent fares means no contribution to auto parts pool service.

As for the number of side panels, we're both right and wrong but, most importantly, I seem to be wrong about the model's foob status.  I double checked the Thompson book when I got home from the office and, according to its narrative, the PS-1s were numbered 39400-39414 and had 6-panels; but the pic of 39409 clearly shows a car with 10 side panels.  I should have counted the side panels before believing the text.  The MSCG shows the same car number, so there's no confirmation one way or another provided by another car from the series.  Both books show photos of other cars with road numbers above 39414 which are also DF2 cars with 10' doors in the EB scheme, built with 12 panels, but they're not PS1s.

[wcfn100]

As for the number of side panels, we're both right and wrong but

All I said was that the Atlas car wasn't a food and the prototype car had 5 panels like the Atlas PS-1.  Not sure where that's wrong.  There are shots of at least five cars from the series and they all have 5 panels.  Are you thinking the other cars might not?

As for the auto parts thing, you have your mind made up, so I'll let it go.


Jason

[wcfn100]

On a different subject, what is the significance of "DF" on the sides of some of these cars?

We covered some of that on this thread.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=34100.0

And if you look at my post with the car assignments, you see mention of the loaders and fillers for the different cars.

Jason

[wcfn100]

Okay, so I'm not going to let it go yet.

Bryan, what's your take on GN cars 139500-139507?

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?o=gn&i=gn139501

Pullman Standard 60' box that were typically auto parts cars on every other railroad and it's stenciled to be returned to the Grand Truck Western at Flint. MI. 

Jason