What kind of eating facilities were on trains in the 40's & 50's

[jmlaboda]

what about the Jim Crow laws?  How did they affect diners?

"Colored" folks had to rely on sandwiches and drinks sold by venders who would climb aboard cars at longer station stops and sell their wares.  Despite Federal law requiring separate but equal facilities quite often it was less than that as far as some operations went.  The last major hold-out was the Central of Georgia which had to be took to court to get them to stop their decades long practices.  On some trains someone from the diner would bring sandwiches and drinks to the car but more times than not it was the venders at certain station stops that would sell to them.

While Kato's Broadway Ltd. twin - unit diner is the only one available R-T-R there are several sets of sides available from various sources for building other cars.

Southern Railway actually had separate dining areas on their modernized heavyweight coach - dinettes.  Separated by the kitchen people of color had two tables with seating behind the kitchen while white folks had a slightly larger area at the front of the cars.  While I haven't seen evidence of it I suspect that the coach section which was adjacent to the smaller dining are was for colored people as well.

A little trivia about the SR coach - dinettes, despite the occasional complaint about paper plates and plastic cups and utensils these cars actually ran at a profit on every line that they were employed on prompting their removal and replacement with fully staffed dining cars.  Three were rebuilt to business cars while the fourth was sold to a fellow who used the car to haul his prize bull to the Atlanta, Ga., cattle show from Augusta, Ga.  The car remains adjacent to the tracks going into Augusta though the bull and its owner have long since past.  Mods. were made to the interior where the bull would ride and some sort of unloading door was cut into the car's side.

[John]

Thanks Jerry .. while it's not often discussed in model railroading, this thread was a good place to ask the question. I honestly didn't know, even though my stepfather was from the south ..

[Bob Bufkin]

John if you have ever been to the Amtrak Station in Alexandria, VA you can still see how it used to be set into two sections.  One for black sand another larger section for whites. 

[Nato]

                 Nothing like having their "Spanish Omelet" for breakfast or a Sirloin Steak with a baked potato for dinner seated in the dome section of a Union  Pacific Dome Diner speeding across Wyoming on the City Of Los Angeles or City of Portland. The COP was the first train to lose it's dome diners, the railroad claimed higher crew costs because these cars had a slightly larger crew so 1949 ACF built 4800 series cars returned to this train in the mid 1960's. The COLA kept it's dome diner almost to the end. I went to take one final ride with my dad a week before Amquack (Trac) a round trip Salt Lake to Rawlings, Wyoming and return the same day. I was looking forward to one last in the dome meal, but the railroad had removed the cars and replaced them with the older 1949 flat tops. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

[jmlaboda]

I was looking forward to one last in the dome meal, but the railroad had removed the cars and replaced them with the older 1949 flat tops. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

Yup!!!  They were coupled together in two lines in UP's big yard in Los Angeles awaiting shipment to Autotrain.  Was a sight to see while crossing the yard on what is now I710 while heading to Maywood, Ca., which was served by the Los Angeles Jct.

[Angus Shops]

Providing dining car service on your trains may allow for some interesting and sometimes neglected passenger switching opportunities. Without researching specific examples, some trains (in Canada at least) switched dining cars into and out of trains depending on which portion of the trains route was involved. A dining car might be provided for the more heavily trafficked portion of the run, or during daytime hours only, or might be switched out and a buffet/lounge substituted. Railways always look at the bottom line and would look for opportunities to economize by refraining from dragging an empty diner along, or by making the most efficient use of equipment such as servicing both the eastbound and westbound trains (sorry, Canadian bias; northbound/southbound also) with the same diner, rather than needing two cars.

Geoff

[Paradise275]

Geoff, I remember that. When the trains stopped for water or coal, the dining car was switched out (after supper at least). There was always food available in the parlor car though.

Rick

[Bob Bufkin]

I've eaten in a few of the pre Amtrak diners and in most cases the food was good.  Anything is better than the junk they sell on the Amcafe coaches.  Overpriced 7 Eleven microwave junk.

[jmlaboda]

...some trains (in Canada at least) switched dining cars into and out of trains depending on which portion of the trains route was involved.

The Norfolk & Western and Southern Railway had numerous runs where the diner would only be in the consist part of the way, often added ahead of breakfast or supper and removed afterwards with the diner being picked up by a train going in the opposite direction and taken back to its point of origin.

[BruceStikkers]

One of the finest diners was the 3 unit one on the all Pullman Panama Limited on the Illinois Central from Chicago to New Orleans. I rode on it some from Chicago to Carbondale during college (late 1960s). I also watched it many times when it came into Carbondale about 9:00 p.m.

Bruce Stikkers

[thomasjmdavis]

The Hummingbird of the 1950s (prior to being combined with the Georgian in 1958) left Chicago with a C&EI diner, dropped that in Evansville and picked up a new L&N diner later in Nashville for the balance of the trip.  Had to do with best utilization for both railroads, and L&N also ran a leg of the train between Cincinnati and Nashville.  C&EI seemed to keep schedules very efficient for its food service cars- very seldom was one on a train overnight.

[Angus Shops]

OK, I can't help myself: if anyone needs to experience a first class dining car in regular service, the only real experience is on today's Canadian on Via Rail. Great food, real dining car experience, including being seated with strangers if the table is not full. Just can't be imitated! The Bride and I did Vancouver - Toronto a couple of years ago and were treated to four full days  (breakfast, lunch and diner) of great food. There is nothing equal for a train nut!

Geoff

[robert3985]

                 Nothing like having their "Spanish Omelet" for breakfast or a Sirloin Steak with a baked potato for dinner seated in the dome section of a Union  Pacific Dome Diner speeding across Wyoming on the City Of Los Angeles or City of Portland. The COP was the first train to lose it's dome diners, the railroad claimed higher crew costs because these cars had a slightly larger crew so 1949 ACF built 4800 series cars returned to this train in the mid 1960's. The COLA kept it's dome diner almost to the end. I went to take one final ride with my dad a week before Amquack (Trac) a round trip Salt Lake to Rawlings, Wyoming and return the same day. I was looking forward to one last in the dome meal, but the railroad had removed the cars and replaced them with the older 1949 flat tops. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

+1 

[randgust]

When you mention Santa Fe, you don't need to say much more, but what most people forget was that the entire Harvey House thing was to provide 'meal stops' along the railroad at the lunchrooms.  While a lot of them were closed in the Depression, the war reopened the entire lunchroom thing with a roar - particularly west of Kansas.    Winslow was the largest lunchroom on the entire system for troop trains.

After the war, the surviving Harvey houses were closed down pretty much by late 1948 as local restaurants - nearly all trains had regular diners.

The other 'neat thing' that Santa Fe did was the combination of 'cafe' and 'buffet' sections into lounges making them into true combination cars.   One of the most well-known cars in N scale is the Rivarossi heavyweight observation, it is actually a Santa Fe Pullman-built café-observation, one of about half a dozen so built.   It has a kitchen, a short dining section, and an observation lounge.   Two of those cars remain, my personal favorite is Texas State Railroad #1511 - and I can personally tell you that the entire kitchen is preserved.

Such café-lounge and café-observation cars were the standard at least on ATSF for the medium-distance and secondary trains until conventional diners evolved.

Up here on the PRR, it was pretty different.   From what I can tell on the schedules, diners were added ONLY on trains during mealtimes, and promptly yanked off at the next available terminal, and not all trains had them, or had them only between certain terminals.  The Official Guide listings typically indicated dining car or lack of dining car service if you realized that 'if its not mentioned, its not there'.    Typical to that was the Harrisburg-Erie and Buffalo-Harrisburg trains,  where in 1946 you really had to pay attention to the published timetable.   No. 581, Erie-New York, only had  a dining car between New York and Harrisburg - in this schedule 6:30 to 11:30 PM, but next morning arriving at Erie you were on your own.   I know the local photos of 580/581 up in this area never, ever, ever showed a diner - just head-end cars, coaches, and a Pullman.   Same thing with the Buffalo PRR trains, pay attention!

[Bob Bufkin]

PRR liked what UP had done using 2 unit diners on their Challenger.  Their Blue Ribbon trains usualy had 2 unit diners on them the whole distance.  Early Amtrak diners on the Florida trains had some great meals.  One railroad I never road on but which I had is the New Haven.  If you have ever seen their menus your mouth starts watering at all the great food they served. 

The B&O beat hell of out PRR when it came to diners and food on their Baltimore/Washington to Chicago routes.  They also had great local seafood and MD specialities on their trains.