Rapido Announces the GARX 37' Meat Reefer in N scale

[John]

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2013/07/modeling-open-ice-hatches-on.html

Many prototype photos of freight trains or freight yards reveal some refrigerator cars with ice hatches latched open. This represents what the Protective Services Tariff called “ventilation service,” and it meant that ice was not placed in the bunkers, but the cooling of outside air was considered sufficient for the perishable cargo. A frequent case was onions, which are preferably shipped at temperatures well above refrigeration temperature, and so will travel all right under vent service.
     in this connection, I can’t resist mentioning that contrary to modeling legend, cars with hatches latched open are not “empties being dried out,” but are loaded cars with cargoes in vent service instead of iced. In fact, three different retired PFE people I interviewed all said they had never even heard of cars being “dried out” that way. Some railfan photographers have also been guilty of this belief, and have captioned photos of cars in vent service as “empties.”

[Kisatchie]

I was more commenting on the pages of worthless sausage talk....

Hmm... worthless? Have
you priced ground chuck
lately...?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

And Bill, no worries... I was more commenting on the pages of worthless sausage talk than not getting an immediate response. I figured my comments were lost in the noise.

You're three pages of worthless sausage talk.

[Sokramiketes]

You're three pages of worthless sausage talk.

Eh?

[eric220]

I also hope that more people share  view of this hyper-analysis thread (and many similar threads on TRW) than seeing them as whiny or bitchy complaint thread (which is how Scottl seems to see it).  To me this thread presents many valid points and opinions on how to make a better model.

I for one see these threads as a giant  . They throw manufacturers that are bringing new products to N Scale on the defensive, and they generally don't do much, if anything to change said products. It's usually a few people offering unsolicited and unwanted advice, and the rest of us watching the train wreck and hoping that the manufacturer doesn't get scared off.

[Spikre]

 
  Jason,
    EDIT-- if there is some incorrect Printed Info, always seem to find
   it and below is a good example.
    [why a wood roof when the cars had STEEL SHEATHED Roofs ??
   3 cars are pictured in RP CYC 14 that clearly show smooth roofs:
   page 78 shows URTX 63341 and URTX 63xxx,both leased to Dubuque.
  page 83 has an unknown car built in 3/40 that deffinately has a Smooth
  roof ].disregard this for now,pics of Rebuilt cars need to be looked at
  closely,what did GATX do to shopped cars in the 50s and 60s ?
   guess page 1 of this thread should have been read earlier ?
   will deal with this when the HO Undec arrives here.
     maybe the Canadian 8 Hatch Steel Reefers would have been a better
   1st car for N ?
    or something from the 60s or 70s ?
    not fair to hold this car over the N Market and say it will be the LAST N
  car if it  doesnt sell.
   Edit - on page 7 Rapidobill actually shows one of the pictures noted above,
   the page 83 just built car.
   on page 96 two assembled HO Reefers built from Sunshine kits are also cited
   for having the Wrong Wood Roof,so for some reason this isn't a new mistake,
  but it is a perpetuated mistake.
  Edit 2 - the picture of URTX 63341 shows a car in need of Shopping, it does look to
  need some Roof repairs.
      Spikre
       
   

[sirenwerks]

They throw manufacturers that are bringing new products to N Scale on the defensive, and they generally don't do much, if anything to change said products.

So wouldn't we want manufacturers with product issues to have second thoughts about putting flawed product on the market?  Flawed or not, the product takes up space on the market and will likely keep another manufacturer from offering an unflawed/better product.  Locomotives are probably not a good example of this but rolling stock probably has less of a profit margin and, thus, would further keep a manufacturer from repeating.

It's usually a few people offering unsolicited and unwanted advice...

Um, welcome to the internet.

[eric220]

Um, welcome to the internet.

Thanks! Good to be here!

As to the rest of your comment, I think you missed my point. I don't think that any manufacturer is really going to make major changes to a project based on our whining, so we aren't going to cause anyone "second thoughts" about a particular project. We might encourage them to have "second thoughts" about making N Scale products in general. We also might give them "second thoughts" about participating here, which destroys any hope that we have of influencing their thinking.

I also feel the need to disagree with the implication that this reefer has "issues" or is "flawed". Is it a perfect 1:160 rendition of the prototype? No. Is it a very nice product offering? It sure looks like it. AFAIK no one outside of Rapido has actually seen this thing in person. With Rapido's history of pushing the envelope of quality and their active participation here, I think they deserve more than the Internet-standard vitriolic criticism that they're getting.

[Rapidobill]

   Edit - on page 7 Rapidobill actually shows one of the pictures noted above,
   the page 83 just built car.
   on page 96 two assembled HO Reefers built from Sunshine kits are also cited
   for having the Wrong Wood Roof,so for some reason this isn't a new mistake,
  but it is a perpetuated mistake.
      Spikre

Well.... yes.... is is a perpetuated mistake.... but.... not ours! When Pat Wider wrote that article he interpreted the builder's photo to be a steel-sheathed roof, even though there was no evidence of it being so. Here's that photo again:

If you zoom in on the photo you will clearly see the board gaps. Don't believe me yet? Here's the image darkened up to remove some of the overexposure on the original:
 


To their credit, Pat and Ed later admitted the mistake but... once it's in print it MUST be correct, right?     

The roofs WERE built with tongue-and-groove boards (you can see this on high res scans of the builder's shots). When new they were indeed quite tight (smooth), but as they aged the gaps became more pronounced.


(BTW, that last images are close-ups of the same one as in on page 78 of RPCyc  #14 that you cite... does it REALLY look smooth to you?)

Bill Schneider
Rapido Trains

[Scottl]

Score one for the good guys.  LOL

I have to admit a casual glance at that photograph had me wondering how it could be wood, but I see it now.

[Spikre]

 
   Rapidobill,
    1937 to 1941 does seem late for boarded roofs,but the Enlargements
   couldn't be made here, thanks for doing that.
    so now to make corrections to that CYC article.
   and this will save work when the HO Undec arrives.
    now to get the CYC guys to reconsider running reprints of Sold Out Issues.
   Edit - the 2nd car shown looks to have some sort of ribbed roof,Hutchins,Viking,
   Buckeye,,but since it is further away,it could just be photo distortion.
   other materials used on Reefer Roofs were Canvas, Heavy Tar Paper, heavy Aluminum Foil,
   thin Sheet Metal,Pressed Steel of different Venders/Designs.
    GATC was an Industry Leader,and was always on top of the latest construction trends, except
   with Wood Reefers it seems.
   they did build plenty of all steel Freight,Milk and Express Reefers in the later 30s.
    of course this is All Patrick Widers fault !!
     Spikre
     
   

[mcjaco]

I believe this song sums it all up:

[sirenwerks]

I think you missed my point.

Nope, just don't agree with it.  I think we (Asshats) can influence some manufacturers; I don't think we do it without cause mostly; and I think we should continue to push manufacturers to provide as accurate as possible models.  I get making a model implies compromises, I just want to see as few as possible when I hand over my money.  For a long time I heard people on lists say those buying trainsets don't care about prototypical equipment and we'd have to accept manufactures giving us disappointments.  I say that, since trainset buyers don't care, they won't care if a model is uber prototypical just as much as if it weren't, so why not make the guys who want the prototypical model?  As for scaring away manufacturers, I already said it - the advise given here is free, how can they complain about that?  Whether it's unsolicited or nice is outside of my control; we get passionate about our toys.  I know I am trying to be nicer when I give critique.  And maybe that's how manufacturers should view the feedback, as critique rather than criticism. 

I also feel the need to disagree with the implication that this reefer has "issues" or is "flawed"...  I think they deserve more than the Internet-standard vitriolic criticism that they're getting.

I didn't apply these terms to the Rapido car, they were used in a generalized sense.  In fact I stated I don't have a dog in that fight but would make room for two or three in my roster, even though the model's prototype was well on its way out in my era.  I thought that was kinda generous.  Maybe, after being criticized, I should rethink that purchase... 

[eric220]

I guess we just don't agree. 

Back to the topic at hand.

[peteski]

I guess we just don't agree. 

Back to the topic at hand.

Eric,
If there is a pre-production model presented by the manufacturer to a group of interested modelers, you think it is wrong of them to offer their critiques of some of the shortcomings of the model, even if there could be a chance that the manufacturer might fix those shortcomings, with relatively little effort?  Especially if those arguments are presented backed with factual documentation (not just idle bitching)?  If not, then why bother commenting at all? Should we just collectively just give the manufacturer a blanket attaboy and stop there?  I thought that TRW wasn't all about just unconditional back-slapping each other. 

I see some valid comments about the model presented here. Whether the manufacturer decides to take those under advisement or not - that's their business.  It is also great to see that the Internet has drastically changed the way manufacturers connect with the hobbyists.  It opened up the door just for this type of direct exchanges between hobbyists and manufacturers.