Rapido Announces the GARX 37' Meat Reefer in N scale

[bbussey]

Let's not be silly.

[CBQ Fan]

I actually located an old thread in which you gave me the number.  So thank you once again!   

I will place my order today for all my cars.

Order has been placed!

[bbussey]

I find funny how you can torch and burn Micro-Trains here all day long and even run off Joe, but there are clearly sacred cow companies that clearly do no wrong.

First off, I communicate with Joe via talk and/or text and/or PM at least every other day on various railroad and non-railroad related issues.  He hasn't been run off from Railwire, and he chimes in when he has something he feels worthy of posting about.  Second, site any comment I've ever made regarding Micro-Trains that isn't true.  I offer praise when it is deserved.  But I'm not going to be a cheerleader and say all things are rosy when they aren't, as many consumers are wont to do.

It's not that there are "sacred cow" companies.  It's that certain criticisms are harsh and unwarranted, and I call those out.

[Spikre]

 
   Congrats to Rapido for using Screws to secure the Trucks !!
    sure this will upset the Push Pinners to no end,but Embrace
   the Future of N !!
        Spikre
       

[CBQ Fan]

First off, I communicate with Joe via talk and/or text and/or PM at least every other day on various railroad and non-railroad related issues.  He hasn't been run off from Railwire, and he chimes in when he has something he feels worthy of posting about.  Second, site any comment I've ever made regarding Micro-Trains that isn't true.  I offer praise when it is deserved.  But I'm not going to be a cheerleader and say all things are rosy when they aren't, as many consumers are wont to do.

It's not that there are "sacred cow" companies.  It's that certain criticisms are harsh and unwarranted, and I call those out.

I meant "you" in a general sense, not you personally.  He did leave for a time as I have the PM's to prove it.

[bbussey]

I meant "you" in a general sense, not you personally.  He did leave for a time as I have the PM's to prove it.

The proper phrasing then would be:  "I find funny how one can torch and burn Micro-Trains here all day long." 

[jdcolombo]

   Congrats to Rapido for using Screws to secure the Trucks !!
    sure this will upset the Push Pinners to no end,but Embrace
   the Future of N !!
        Spikre
       

Amidst all the bitching and moaning about slat depth, ladder detail, stirrups, rivets, etc. (to which my general response is "if you like 'em when the come out, buy 'em, and if you don't, don't), this may be the most overlooked mechanical advance in N scale in years - a screw securing the trucks.  Why N scale hasn't gone this route (which has been standard in HO forever) is a mystery to me, since a screw lets you easily control how much a truck "rocks" and can often help fine-tune derailment issues.

Does anyone else in the industry use a screw for securing the trucks?

John C.

[bbussey]

I believe Athearn and ExactRail use screws.  Kato and InterMountain do on occasion.

[thomasjmdavis]

And Walthers did, at least on their passenger cars- I have one right here on the desk.

[peteski]

And Walthers did, at least on their passenger cars- I have one right here on the desk.

All the older Kato passenger trains used screws too (so did their cabooses and loco tenders).  Only recently they switched to snap-in trucks (still no friction pins).

[peteski]

I got a lot of flak for my original comment about this model.  Do I think I deserve it? No.  While strong, my comment clearly defined reasons for my dissatisfaction with the model as it was shown in that photo (it wasn't just empty bitching).  Few others also agreed.

Don't get me wrong - I was happy to see a company producing a never before produced prototype. It is just the execution of the model that I didn't care for.  Why didn't I hold my comments until I see the model?  Because I thought that maybe if I commented on what I see as a (glaring to me) shortcoming on the model, it might still get fixed (assuming that my comments were even taken into consideration).  If I waited until seeing the model in-person, that might have been too late to change anything.  After all, don't companies post early prototype photos to online forums to get a feedback from the forum members?  Or is it just to get "awesome model" comments?   

However since the model shown is not a raw prototype (it is already fully decorated) I suspect that the tooling is already finalized, so my comments (and others who stated the same thing) won't make much difference.

ESM Bryan:  you comment that we are looking at a "blown up to H0 size" comment doesn't hold water.  First of all, the apparent size depends on the size of the screen you are viewing it on.  I could have seen that photo on an iPhone or on a 24" monitor. Next, this is TRW:Modelers post many such photos of enlarged N scale models witch still look realistic. I recall commenting on such photos here where I said that if not for the MT coupler that N scale model would look like it is H0 or even larger scale.  Even some of the models ESM produces still look "good" when shown enlarged in the photos.

Plus, I posted a comparison photo of the MT reefer enlarged to the same size, which clearly showed that it had much finer lines engraved on the sides.  You then said that I compared a 36 to a 40 foot car.  I did that because I figured the dimensions of the slats would be similar on both cars and it happened to have the same paint scheme.  I can take another photo comparing the car discussed here with a MT 36' reefer.

Sorry if my original comments were too strong - that is just my personality.  I get no good Karma points, but I'm used to it. 

If I could edit my original comment, it would read as follows:

It is awesome to see Rapido Trains producing a model of a never-before modeled prototype - kudos!  However, looking at the provided photo I noticed that the distance between the boards seems little oversize, and so it the depth of those gaps.  I like to collect billboard reefers, but if the production version looks the same as the prototype photo I will not be buying any of them.  Otherwise - an excellent model! 

[bbussey]

Pete,

You got flak because you didn't compare apples to apples, not because your comments were too strong.  You used the 40' MTL car for comparison, instead of the 36' MTL car, and depicted it from a perspective angle to give the illusion it was the same dimensions as the Rapido car.  The camera is further back from the MTL car in order to provide the illusion that the length was the same as the Rapido car, which also makes the detail look more fine.

Correction — you only used the side detail of the 40' MTL reefer in your comparison.  You dismissed the roof details of the MTL reefers, which is not as fine or intricate as every other wood reefer model on the market.  If the side detail is relevant, then the roof detail should be as well, especially since most people observe N scale layouts and rolling stock from a birds-eye view and not from a track-level view.

It's fine if you don't like the Rapido pilot model based on the relief.  But you can't credibly use selective portions of the MTL model as reasons for not liking the Rapido model and exclude the parts that don't fit your argument.

[peteski]

Pete,

You got flak because you didn't compare apples to apples, not because your comments were too strong.  You used the 40' MTL car for comparison, instead of the 36' MTL car, and depicted it from a perspective angle to give the illusion it was the same dimensions as the Rapido car.  The camera is further back from the MTL car in order to provide the illusion that the length was the same as the Rapido car, which also makes the detail look more fine.

Correction — you only used the side detail of the 40' MTL reefer in your comparison.  You dismissed the roof details of the MTL reefers, which is not as fine or intricate as every other wood reefer model on the market.  If the side detail is relevant, then the roof detail should be as well, especially since most people observe N scale layouts and rolling stock from a birds-eye view and not from a track-level view.

It's fine if you don't like the Rapido pilot model based on the relief.  But you can't credibly use selective portions of the MTL model as reasons for not liking the Rapido model and exclude the parts that don't fit your argument.

That is absolutely correct - it is the sides of the Rapido reefer which offended my eyes Specifically, one feature there.  The ladders also seemed a bit heavy (but I didn't mention that).  Like I said, we humans all see things differently. The oversize MT roof details don't bother my eyes either (even if they aren't 100% accurate).

As far as the thickness of the roofwalks goes (something else you brought up earlier). MT roofwalks are some of the thinnest plastic roofwalks out there. Maybe you confused them with the old Atlas ones?  I measured the thickest part of the MT reefer roofwalk and it is 0.020" (which scales to 3.2") and it tapes on the edges to 0.015" (which is merely 2.4"), not 3 feet thick.

I'll try to take another photo with a correct length MT car. As far as perspective goes, I will try to come as close as possible with my equipment.  It is kind of tough to get things exact (I'm sure I use a different focal length lens).

And as far as the flak I got, it was more than just as you say for not comparing apples to apples.

[bbussey]

That is absolutely correct - it is the sides of the Rapido reefer which offended my eyes Specifically, one feature there.  The ladders also seemed a bit heavy (but I didn't mention that).  Like I said, we humans all see things differently. The oversize MT roof details don't bother my eyes either (even if they aren't 100% accurate).

As far as the thickness of the roofwalks goes (something else you brought up earlier). MT roofwalks are some of the thinnest plastic roofwalks out there. Maybe you confused them with the old Atlas ones?  I measured the thickest part of the MT reefer roofwalk and it is 0.020" (which scales to 3.2") and it tapes on the edges to 0.015" (which is merely 2.4"), not 3 feet thick. ...

The ladders are separate detail parts on the Rapido car, as they are on InterMountain's models as well as recently-tooled models from other manufacturers.  By necessity, as you know, they would have to be "heavier" than if tooled as part of the body relief.  We can't ask for the manufacturers to give us free-standing parts and then hit them for giving us free-standing parts.  And again, while you may see only the sides as an issue, I don't feel you're being fair in your assessment by not including all aspects of both models.  The "latches" on the MTL reefers are just a plastic part with no detail.  Other manufacturers have operating hatches and the latch component is fully represented.  MTL has Centerflow hoppers with operating hatches and high-end detail, so the capability exists.

They used to be the thinnest plastic roofwalks.  But as worn-out tooling was replaced in the post-Kadee era, the roofwalks were thickened beyond what other manufacturers are doing on their premiere product lines, and they no longer have the tapers on the edges (and roof relief has been modified as well to accommodate the thicker roofwalks).  It started with the 40' Boxcar variants, and slowly migrated across the other bodystyles.  Other relief has been affected in retoolings as well, such as the "flattening" of door stops and other side-surface detail.

Most if not all of the other manufacturers are using metal etchings to represent steel roofwalks at this point, and some have started retrofitting older tooling to utilize etched roofwalks in place of plastic ones.

Also — bear in mind that, before your first post in this thread, Pud stated that the slat relief was being addressed:

Funny: the test shots look huge with the gap but the sample cars when looked at under the naked eye and when looked at under a glass don't look like that - we're not really sure why but we noted it to the factory - this is pre production tooling so we're still tweaking stuff. The new samples will be at Springfield for people to see and the alterations will be made (and a few others that we caught).

So your comparison with the MTL model is academic at this point anyway.

[thomasjmdavis]

For me, the real question is, will they make enough red Swift reefers for me to get a couple?  Just from reading through the 2 recent threads, it looks like that is going to be popular. Other mid-50s schemes appropriate for Chicago also appreciated.