Rapido Announces the GARX 37' Meat Reefer in N scale

[bbussey]

I agree, but why make it grossly exaggerated?  If my photo comparison doesn't clearly show the difference to you then I don't know how else to demonstrate it to you. Why make the the gap between the boards scale 2" wide and 2" deep when it could just as easily be 1" wide and 0.5" deep?  These aren't any specific values - just an example.  Either of those gaps would be visible on the model - one would just look more realistic than the other.

I guess we all have different trigger points of something that makes a model less realistic. Mine is obviously different than yours.  I can accept the oversize roof hatch detail much easier than the large and deep gaps between the boards.  Besides, it is much easier to to replace the hatch with a more in-scale item than fix the sides of the car.

I don't know and to be honest it doesn't biother me. The car just looks "right" to me.  More like a scale model than a toy.

First off, you didn't compare apples to apples. Your MTL photo is of the 40' model. Put the Rapido photo up against a photo of one of the MTL 36' models and then make your comparisons. Then we can go over all the corrections needed to the MTL model to make it acceptable, such as the roofwalk, hatches, latches, stirrups, truck positioning, ride height, etcetera.  And the difference between the slats relief on the two models will be less noticeable.

Funny that you say that. I just compared the Ricarossi and MT heavyweight cars about a week ago and the Rivarossi rivets look giant when compared to the MT ones. The spacing of the Rivarossi rivets is also way to sparse.  I won't be able to take a photo over the weekend, but maybe next week I can show a photo of both, to show the huge difference between Rivarossi and MT.  I myself did not realize how much finer the MT rivets are until I was looking at both cars next to each other.

Am I really becoming a real rivet-counter!?   

Again, this is something that I'm sometimes willing to accept.  I have even bought some real fantasy-schemes from MT.  Yes, I have sinned!  I guess we have different priorities.

Again, the most common viewing angle of N scale equipment is from above. With the exception of the RPO, the roof detail on the MTL heavyweights is hideous and it takes hours to make it respectable. I know, because I've gone through the exercise a number of times. The tooling path is visible on the 12-1 roof, which takes a while to sand out. And the rivet relief difference isn't noticeable under normal circumstances. The roofs and coupling distance and non-inset glass are very evident from any viewing angle. The WOT models are superior.

You do have a point.  But since the info and photo was posted, I simply stated my opinion about what I saw.  Isn't that why manufacturers post photos of the pilot models?  So that modelers can comment on them? Maybe my comment will make a difference in the final product.  My comment was strong because I felt strongly about what I saw. The deep and wide gap between the boards really jumped out to me - it was the first thing I saw on that photo. But I don't think I was trashing anything. I simply said that I wouldn't buy what I saw.

There's a difference between constructive criticism and negative comments. We've already been told that modifications have been made to the model. The photos posted were HO size. If you reduce them to normal size, the model looks fine. The paint schemes look fine, and they are accurate. Wait until Springfield to see if the model isn't to your liking. I suspect that you may think differently once you see it in hand three months from now.

[bbussey]

I just get skeptical when I see a bunch of announcements that aren't supported by regular product arrivals.  When I see regular nscale products say a couple of times a quarter I will be much more likely to get excited when there is a new announcement.  Their products have always impressed me when they have been actually been available to purchase.  While my layout may not be up to the standards of some here it is real and I can't run virtual rolling stock!  When you over promise and under deliver you own the public discontent.

That's bull. Ever since Mike started working at Rapido, we've been told the reasons for the n scale product delays and been given regular updates and accurate release dates. We've also been provided production-process photographs regularly on both their Facebook page and in their newsletter. Not every manufacturer can pump out product every month or every quarter. ESM has had only one release this year, which was a delayed release from late 2013. The well car was supposed to be out 2nd quarter, and it appears that it will be 2nd quarter of 2015 maybe that they will arrive - all due to circumstances beyond my control - and I don't ever get the abuse that some of the other manufacturers get. Regular updates are being provided. Delays and the reasons behind them always have been divulged. While I may be privvy to more information than most, I can attest to the forthright nature on the information being provided. Sometimes crap happens, and everyone including the manufacturer has to deal with it. If you feel that's unreasonable and it torks you off, then don't patronize the company when the product comes to market. Currently, there is no true wood meat reefer model in N. This is a model that is needed, and it should do quite well when it is released.

[CBQ Fan]

I have WOT cars in the CB&Q and NP.  All 6 cars roll like crud.  I have worked on all of them and they are better but still not up to my standard.  The NP cars look really nice, the lighter green is a little too minty for me but close enough to the Rapido cars for my eye.  The Q cars have horrible lettering quality and color.  It looks more like something a middle schooler would do.

[bbussey]

My WOT cars roll fine. Change your wheels.  And if the CB&Q cars were not to your liking, why did you buy them or not return them?

The WOT cars are superior to the MTL cars. That is without dispute.

[CBQ Fan]

That's bull. Ever since Mike started working at Rapido, we've been told the reasons for the n scale product delays and been given regular updates and accurate release dates. We've also been provided production-process photographs regularly on both their Facebook page and in their newsletter. Not every manufacturer can pump out product every month or every quarter. ESM has had only one release this year, which was a delayed release from late 2013. The well car was supposed to be out 2nd quarter, and it appears that it will be 2nd quarter of 2015 maybe that they will arrive - all due to circumstances beyond my control - and I don't ever get the abuse that some of the other manufacturers get. Regular updates are being provided. Delays and the reasons behind them always have been divulged. While I may be privvy to more information than most, I can attest to the forthright nature on the information being provided. Sometimes crap happens, and everyone including the manufacturer has to deal with it. If you feel that's unreasonable and it torks you off, then don't patronize the company when the product comes to market. Currently, there is no true wood meat reefer model in N. This is a model that is needed, and it should do quite well when it is released.

No it is not bull!  I like your products.  But your new announcements don't out pace what you actually produce.  When a company announces many more products than they have historically shown they can produce I think it is only fair for some to skeptical!  Add into that mix a whole new scale and I think it just gets more dicey.  When one entire product offering shuts down the entire rest of their operations for months and months that leads to questions on their decision making process.  Don't get me wrong this isn't personal.  I like all the guys I have dealt with and I like their openness with modelers, but if they continue to over promise and under deliver they risk loosing most of their customer base.

I find funny how you can torch and burn Micro-Trains here all day long and even run off Joe, but there are clearly sacred cow companies that clearly do no wrong. 

[CBQ Fan]

My WOT cars roll fine. Change your wheels.  And if the CB&Q cars were not to your liking, why did you buy them or not return them?

The WOT cars are superior to the MTL cars. That is without dispute.

Changing the wheels is the next step.  I pre-ordered them based off of artwork.  I may sell them depending on the wheels outcome but worse case I paint them orange and turn them into MOW cars.  Did you change your wheels?

[bbussey]

I don't remember changing the latest cars. But I did use WOT trucks under my scratchbuilt NH turtleback baggage and swapped in FVM wheels.

[Puddington]

The large majority of the paint schemes we chose are prototypical for this GATX reefer including the Swift schemes. This was a team effort with a small group of reefer guru's and some research done with some proto-meet friends when we did the HO version. I don't have the list here but if you have specific questions PM me and I will get the answer. I can't post some of the photo's we have because they are not our property - sorry.

I guess Brian, what we should do is STOP... just stop developing new products. Wait for however long it takes to get the Panarama cars here (and you seem to continue to ignore my posted photo's of progress, I assume that until you have it in your hand we are to cease and desist all PD and resulting announcement) and then begin ONE other project. Is that how you want your suppliers to work... it isn't how I want them to work. Hey; **** happens and as long as a company tells me what's happening, doesn't drop the cone of silence on everything then I'm happy to see them continue to advance. Because one project is stalled it doesn't mean others can't go forward - there are different factory's, different tooling suppliers, complexities of off shore production, technical challenges, supplier issues you can't image - don't assume because a company is pushing forward with the "widget 1" project and that "widget 2" is stalled that it's the fault of "widget1"... it almost never is.

Your Panarama cars aren't stalled because of our HO GMD-1 or Budd cars. They were stalled because a tooling supplier was messed up and before you say "just change suppliers", that isn't how it works in China. They are in production now....

For what it's worth; it takes time, effort and trust to try and be open and honest and keep the N scale world informed; not everyone does it and frankly I wonder if we are wasting our time sometimes....

[CBQ Fan]

I don't remember changing the latest cars. But I did use WOT trucks under my scratchbuilt NH turtleback baggage and swapped in FVM wheels.

Do you have the FVM product number for which wheels you used handl?

[CBQ Fan]

The large majority of the paint schemes we chose are prototypical for this GATX reefer including the Swift schemes. This was a team effort with a small group of reefer guru's and some research done with some proto-meet friends when we did the HO version. I don't have the list here but if you have specific questions PM me and I will get the answer. I can't post some of the photo's we have because they are not our property - sorry.

I guess Bryan, what we should do is STOP... just stop developing new products. Wait for however long it takes to get the Panarama cars here (and you seem to continue to ignore my posted photo's of progress, I assume that until you have it in your hand we are to cease and desist all PD and resulting announcement) and then begin ONE other project. Is that how you want your suppliers to work... it isn't how I want them to work. Hey; **** happens and as long as a company tells me what's happening, doesn't drop the cone of silence on everything then I'm happy to see them continue to advance. Because one project is stalled it doesn't mean others can't go forward - there are different factory's, different tooling suppliers, complexities of off shore production, technical challenges, supplier issues you can't image - don't assume because a company is pushing forward with the "widget 1" project and that "widget 2" is stalled that it's the fault of "widget1"... it almost never is.

Your Panarama cars aren't stalled because of our HO GMD-1 or Budd cars. They were stalled because a tooling supplier was messed up and before you say "just change suppliers", that isn't how it works in China. They are in production now....

For what it's worth; it takes time, effort and trust to try and be open and honest and keep the N scale world informed; not everyone does it and frankly I wonder if we are wasting our time sometimes....

Puddington, here is my take.  Rapido came out with what has to be the largest passenger train offering ever with your original run with regards to schemes and cars.  I had responses from Jason saying to expect it to continue and that everything in HO was soon to be done in N.  Than for many many years nothing.  As discussed I had my order cancelled for the current run of cars coming out.  And now before we see any real steady N scale releases we are seeing a whole bunch of announcements and a whole new product line to boot.  So maybe it is the chicken or the egg.  It is not personal.  I now have two different NP trains trying to complete out a full train.  I like your product better than centrailia and yours matches better with Lowell Smith!  Simply said you said fall and using Intermountains upcoming product list as support fall could mean just about any year.

[wcfn100]

You checked all twelve of the numbers on the Wilson cars to confirm that none of them are accurate to the model?

If I could, you know I would.  You're taking this in you're own direction.  I don't care if they're not 100% correct.  And I'm not trying to call out foobies here.  Atlas Master Line cars have bigger issues that what we're talking about here and their PS-1 will have paint schemes that won't match the prototype car exactly because of design changes.  But the Rapido car is obviously built from a prototype and I'm having a hard time finding some of these paint schemes on this particular prototype, so I'm looking for help and the RPC should give some of that info.

And, if the only modification needed to the Swift model to make it 100% accurate is to remove the tabs on the sill,

I didn't say that was the only modification,   I just said it doesn't have tabbed sill.

The "normal" viewing angle for most N-scale modelers is a birds-eye view. The roofs and roofwalks of most MTL models are not anywhere near the current standards. So nitpicking about the slats relief and not saying squat about MTL's foot-thick roofwalks is not an objective position.

I'm not comparing this to the MTL car, that's you and Pete.  I'm just saying that I agree that the relief is a bit heavy.  I also agree with you that from the side at normal viewing, it probably won't be that bad.  The roof however, may be more noticeable and/or objectionable to normal viewing.

I'm still in for a couple kits and like usual, things discussed in this thread don't effect 99.99% of the N scale dollars so this is just a few guys talking about a model.  No reason for anyone to get excited.   

I'm glad Rapido is branching out and as long as they roll well, they'll have a big hit.

Jason

[bbussey]

Do you have the FVM product number for which wheels you used handl?

No I don't.  But you can measure the WOT axle length to determine the appropriate 36" FVM wheelset to use.  I keep a supply of all the wheel diameters and axle lengths on hand so I can plug and play to find the best result.

[bbussey]

I'm still in for a couple kits and like usual, things discussed in this thread don't effect 99.99% of the N scale dollars so this is just a few guys talking about a model.  No reason for anyone to get excited.   

I'm not getting excited.  I just strongly feel that everyone should wait for the physical models to appear before criticizing them.  Three months isn't long to wait, and enough members of this forum will be attending the Amherst show in January to provide a fair assessment of the model.

[CBQ Fan]

No I don't.  But you can measure the WOT axle length to determine the appropriate 36" FVM wheelset to use.  I keep a supply of all the wheel diameters and axle lengths on hand so I can plug and play to find the best result.

I actually located an old thread in which you gave me the number.  So thank you once again!   

I will place my order today for all my cars.

[wcfn100]

I just strongly feel that everyone should wait for the physical models to appear before criticizing them.

That's fine, but then you can't  single out criticisms.  Any positive remarks should also have to wait until physical models are in hand i.e. I don't want to hear how good a model looks from anybody until they've actually held it.

Kind of stupid, eh? 

Jason