Another disappointing shipment!

[Dave V]

It's because the top manufacturers got greedy, shipped production to China and now we're all stuck with a broken supply chain.

I'm still not convinced it's a "greed" thing, and I'm a bit uncomfortable with that accusation.  I lament the move away from US manufacturing as much as anyone, but honestly, at least at first, manufacturing in China allowed the price of product to lag behind what it would have been if made here in the US.  It's not like folks at Atlas are dining on lobster and caviar as emperors of "Big Model Railroading."  They did what they felt they needed to at the time to keep making the stuff at a price point that would sell.  And yes, it did end up blowing up in their faces (literally in the case of the code 55 molds!).  It may well be that they would not have been able to maintain their product line (or even stay in business) without moving production to China.  It will be interesting to see what the new price points will be if manufacturing comes back stateside.

[davefoxx]

I think the O.P. is right - quality has taken a dive - and the dealer I do some work for has said the exact same thing - with some very unkind words for two of the biggest manufacturers.

I've seen a number of those Walthers Greenville hoppers with broken posts in EXACTLY the same place - on a shipment of 48 cars over half were broken.

There's the Kato SD70ACE truck issue which is surely a design flaw.

There were the Exactrail bulkhead flats - every  car I received had to have it's delicate end details removed and re-glued on.

There are the Atlas 89' flats that unbelievably do not roll properly because the wheels touch the underframe.

Intermountain loco handrails, etc. etc. etc.

At $20, 30, 40 a pop - this is ridiculous and it's killing the hobby.

I've been in the hobby for 30+ years - and - I am capable and willing to fix this crap (not the Walthers cars which are unfixable). But please don't tell me this is to be expected.  It's because the top manufacturers got greedy, shipped production to China and now we're all stuck with a broken supply chain.

Kudos to the small manufacturers who manage to produce and deliver high quality stuff despite this mess - and to MTL who may produce foobies but at least they (usually) arrive in one piece.

- Lou

Lou,

I don't have experience with the other issues you raised in your post (except that I've never had a broken MTL production on delivery), but the problem with the Atlas 89' TOFC flat car is hardly worth complaining about.  It's not even a five-minute fix to replace the wheels with Fox Valley wheelsets (I end up doing this on most cars anyway) and, while doing so, scrape off any metal flash on the underframe above the trucks with a flat-bladed screwdriver or motor tool.  They roll fine now, and, trust me, I'm asking a lot of my flats by running them on curves down to an 11" radius!

DFF

[Kisatchie]

Kudos to ... MTL who may produce foobies but at least they (usually) arrive in one piece.

I have literally hundreds and hundreds of Micro-Trains cars, both new and used. I can count on one hand the number that weren't ready to go right out of the box - usually damaged brake wheels on the used cars.

On the other hand, I ordered about 100 Atlas ore cars a year or so ago. They had the trucks painted a reddish color, and the extra paint clogged the bolster holes on a number of cars so that the trucks wouldn't turn freely. And too, the Accumate couplers would lose a trip pin every now and then. Annoying!


Hmm... how did Kiz ever
survive such problems...?

[strummer]

You got three cars for $55.00, $17.33 a car, not what I would call a substantial investment. I know it is annoying to get them out and find problems but there is not much you can buy today and have it 100% right at the bottom end.
The probability of getting perfect out of the box I find does get better as you approach the $30 mark, and as you progress upwards from there so does the quality and workmanship...

Although I do agree with most of what's being said, $17.33 each for an N scale car still seems high to me. I guess I've been in the hobby for too long; I can remember when engines were less than that...in most scales...

Mark in Oregon

[Kisatchie]

...I guess I've been in the hobby for too long; I can remember when engines were less than that...in most scales...

Man, you're making me feel old.


Hmm... Kiz IS old...

[GaryHinshaw]

... but the problem with the Atlas 89' TOFC flat car is hardly worth complaining about.

Actually Dave, I think this is exactly the type of thing to complain about: a car that won't roll out of the box is just poor quality control.  If it's an easy fix for you and me, it's an easy fix for the factory.  Seasoned veterans like us are motivated to fix it,  but a significant fraction of newcomers will turn around and walk away. 

I agree that the manufacturers are not greedy; they are just trying to stay competitive, and find the right balance between cost and quality.  But a car that operates reliably in a train should just be a given (aside from the inevitable occasional defect).

[Albert in N]

Cutting corners on Quality Control is a stupid management decision, regardless of where the product is made.  You would think that the factory or importer would at least operate their product before presenting it to customers.  Even a test of the first few items produced along with spot checks is something.  Those who do not test products usually produce hundreds of defective items, price them, and distribute their junk to the buying public.  Some are better at raising the price than testing or researching. 

[nkalanaga]

For what it's worth, the Minneapolis Federal Reserve has an inflation calculator on it's homepage.  Using 2013 and 1973, $17.33 in 2013 would have been worth $3.30 in 1973.  What did MT boxcars sell for when they first came out?

A $17.33 locomotive in 1973 would cost $90.88 today - and wouldn't be nearly as nice a model as today's.  I was there, and N scale had very few good running, much less good looking, locomotives in 1973!

Albert:  I'll agree with the need for quality control.  I work in a factory making oil and fuel filters.  We always test the first parts on a shift, or any time we change to another part on the line, and then test parts regularly through the shift.  If a part fails the test, everything since the last good test is quarantined, and production doesn't continue until the cause is found AND multiple test parts have passed.

Admittedly, an automotive filter is more important, both financially and safety-wise, than a "toy".  On the other hand, nobody is required to buy "toys", which makes quality at least as important.  People have to buy the car parts, even if not from a particular company.  They don't have to buy the "toys" at all!

[jagged ben]

Actually Dave, I think this is exactly the type of thing to complain about: a car that won't roll out of the box is just poor quality control.  If it's an easy fix for you and me, it's an easy fix for the factory.  Seasoned veterans like us are motivated to fix it,  but a significant fraction of newcomers will turn around and walk away.

I agree with that.  If I hadn't been introduced to N scale 25 years ago, or been following it closely in the last 10 years with the introduction of FVM wheels, I wouldn't have the skills and knowledge to fix the problems with the Atlas flats.  While those problems don't bother me enough to complain about, it makes me sad for younger people interested in N scale, and pessimistic about whether they'll stick with it. 

(Mind you, it's not exactly that much worse than the Rapido couplers I had to deal with when I was 12.  But the point still stands.) 

[Ian MacMillan]

Get more posts so I can move this thread.

[peteski]

Get more posts so I can move this thread.

Ok, all the N scale train manufacturers really suck!  Their quality control is non-existent!  I will never buy another RTR N scale model!  I will only buy kits - that way I alone can be responsible for quality of assembly and painting. 

EDIT:
Hehehe!  I just figured out what Ian meant.  That might take a while....

[davefoxx]

Actually Dave, I think this is exactly the type of thing to complain about: a car that won't roll out of the box is just poor quality control.  If it's an easy fix for you and me, it's an easy fix for the factory.  Seasoned veterans like us are motivated to fix it,  but a significant fraction of newcomers will turn around and walk away. 

I'll agree that the complaints definitely need to be voiced to the manufacturer, so that it is aware of the problem(s).  In this case, I would be surprised if Atlas did not address the issue in the next run of 89' TOFC flat cars.

DFF

[bbussey]

... It's because the top manufacturers got greedy, shipped production to China and now we're all stuck with a broken supply chain...

It's definitely not a "got greedy" issue.  It still costs too much to have product made here, and the quality is not as good.  I can say all of that from first-hand experience.  ESM started out making product here in the States, and we were forced to go overseas when we were rejected by contractors here because our items were too costly (from their standpoint) to make that met our requirements.  And, of our early items, the best decorated hands-down were the chemical tankcars done by RivaRossi in Italy.  Not even close.  Even with our craftsman kits, all etched components are done in Europe rather than in the States — because the results are better quality at less cost, even with the international shipping.  The only exception has been the rapid prototyping, but only because we found a contractor willing to work with us and squeeze our jobs on with other larger jobs, thus sparing us the full tray cost.

Yes, there are issues keeping the supply chain moving from Asia.  But thinking it's possible to get product made domestically with the same level of detail at the same price point is a pipe dream.

[bbussey]

I also don't have much empathy for the RTR-only philosophy, especially in this forum.  This forum by definition is a haven for those who wish to hone their modeling skills.  So when it takes little effort in most cases to get the models to run properly, I don't see that as a problem.  What other hobbies are there that require no hands-on effort?  None that I can think of, which is why it's known as a hobby and not a collectible effort.  The hobby is called "model railroading," not "ready-to-run railroading."

[jagged ben]

I'll agree that the complaints definitely need to be voiced to the manufacturer, so that it is aware of the problem(s).  In this case, I would be surprised if Atlas did not address the issue in the next run of 89' TOFC flat cars.

DFF

Their solution was to add washers between the trucks and body, increasing the ride height.