Ballast or Scenery. Which comes first?

[RSWController]

Like w_neal I tend to build scenery first but I've done it both ways.

[Blazeman]

Bill: Which area of your layout are you doing now, since you ask the question? So we'll have new things to see in November, I hope?

[Bfagan]

I'm doing the upper level so there will be new things to see in this years open house.

Bill

[nkalanaga]

Bob:  My dirt is also real dirt, with mortar sand as filler if I need extra depth.  It's easier to work with than actual dirt, and needs no prep, besides gluing very nicely with white glue.  A layer of natural dirt on top of it finishes the ground.  I've made some fairly large fills that way, just leave the roadbed in midair and pack the sand around it, the way railroads used to convert timber trestles to fills.

The only time I bought mortar sand it was $20 a ton, and they couldn't weigh less than a truckload.  The manager and I estimated that my box held about 80 pounds, based on volume, so we made it an even hundred, and I paid a dollar for it.  I still have a bunch of it, as well as some leftovers from a remodeling project next door to my former job.  That one has a few pieces of gravel in it, having been shoveled from a paved parking lot, but works just as well.

[robert3985]

One of the reasons I like "real" dirt, as opposed to sand or mortar is the variety of scale sized "dirt" that happens when I grade it using various screens.  I also get various colors and textures, so when I dig a bucket of "sacred dirt" from a prototype location I'm planning on modeling, and after I bake it to get rid of any live organisms, I usually get as many as six different smaller containers of modeling materials that represent rocks, talus, ballast sized rocks, dirt, and dust.  The very fine dust is really great for representing game trails on my lower canyon areas and the ballast sized rocks get added to my Highball Ballast to bring it to the proper color for U.P. ballast up Weber and Echo Canyons.

I also run my Highball Ballast through two of my screens to get rid of pieces that are too large and to separate out the dust.  I find that if I just get rid of the larger pieces the dust makes it look like concrete when I use it.  Separating the dust lets the ballast rocks show and adds a lot to the appearance of the ballast.

[nkalanaga]

I'm lucky, as AR&M made ballast just the color I needed, and I bought enough for two or three layouts.  I don't need to screen my dirt nearly as carefully.  It's all going to be dirt anyway, so all I need to do is take out the rocks.  A window screen does that, and a tea strainer works fine if I want the smaller rocks removed. 

As for critters, I've never bothered to bake it.  Once it's glued down, they're not going anywhere, and if they can fit through the screens, I don't worry about them. 

[robert3985]

As for critters, I've never bothered to bake it.  Once it's glued down, they're not going anywhere, and if they can fit through the screens, I don't worry about them.

  Hahaha!  To tell the truth, since I'm digging dirt in the desert and it's mostly inorganic, I probably wouldn't have probs with the critters either.   However, the first buckets I dug were in the Spring and the ground was still damp, so I baked 'em to dry 'em out...which also killed the critters.

[nkalanaga]

Living in eastern Kentucky I can understand the need to dry the dirt.  In most cases I've left mine on the covered porch, stirring it regularly, but even that takes a while.  And if it's raining, or a humid period, it can take even longer.  Fortunately I didn't need too much, which is the main reason for using the mortar sand for filler.  Any area over about an eighth of an inch was roughed in with it, then the real dirt added over the top.  The local mortar sand is the same color as the dirt, and it has the advantage of not shrinking when it dries.  The local dirt has a lot of clay in it, and tends to shrink and crack as it dries.  Sand packs when wet, instead of expanding, and then holds the finish layer in place so it doesn't crack.

Growing up in Pasco, WA, I used the local dirt, which actually is sand, and never had any problems.  On the other hand, there's very little fine powder in it, because it really is almost pure sand, very similar in size to mortar sand.  It also has a high iron content, and has to be solidly glued, or it clogs motors.  One can drag a small magnet through the sand and it comes out fuzzy with iron particles.  I'm a little surprised that no one has every tried using for iron ore.  I still have a supply of it, and use it for gravel roads, where I don't want the typical yellow-brown Kentucky dirt color, which itself is a good match for the Montana soil in the area I model.  Gravel out there isn't always the same color as the local dirt.

[Iain]

I vote that once this thread has run its course, it goes to the Best of subforum.