What alternatives exist for passenger core kits?

[nickelplate759]

Once upon a time American Limited made very nice passenger-car core kits, and a whole side-industry sprung up making car sides that could be built into terrific models.  Sadly, these are no longer available (and regularly sell for well over $30 on auction sites when they show up) and I'm told that the current owner of the tooling is unable (although perhaps willing) to return them to market as they can't get the tooling to work properly.     

I don't want to rehash that story.   I DO want to know what we can do instead - building passenger car models is one of my favorite parts of the hobby.

Options include:
1. cannibalize existing models
2. build a core kit from scratch
3. rapid prototyping
4. one of the above + resin casting for multiple copies

Unfortunately, none of these ideas are ideal:
1. Existing models are some combination of expensive, hard to get (limited or out of production), the wrong length (Con-Cor smooth-sides for example) or require a milling machine to adapt.  I'm not about to tear apart a $50 Centralia car just to get the roof, ends and floor.    Kato sold all the parts for their original smooth-side cars once upon a time, but not so much any more.
2. Building from scratch would be easy except for the roof  - oh for a plastic extrusion of just the right profile!
3. rapid prototyping might work, if we leave the details, like roof vents, off the major parts (just like in the American Limited kit) so that we can remove the RP artifacts by sanding/filling.  One might even be able to do a Budd core kit that way.  Seems like it would cost a lot though. 
4. holds some promise, I think, as it at least provides a way to repeat the hard work with less effort.  That said  I'm not excited about learning to do castings.

Any other ideas? 

George

[thomasjmdavis]

I have taken to using some of my old "foobies" as cores for cars.  Some that seem to work very well are the old Rowa cars- which had separate interiors (parts you can use) and are much closer to correct length than the Con Cor smooth sides.  I just cut the entire side away.  Walthers cars looked like a good alternative, but they seem to be just a hair too long (as are the Kato smoothsides) for some of the sides I have.  But might be adaptable.  Also note that the old Kato Budd coaches (from their early Budd cars, not the current CZ) are a few feet short for most uses, but are perfect fits for M&R's early ATSF lounge dorm and baggage-dorm-lounge (1937 or 38 for the Chief and Super Chief).  But in any case, between sales and auctions, most of the cars that I have cannibalized for cores cost less than a core kit, and come with trucks and couplers, and often re-usable interior parts.

If I ever actually finish any of the above, I may post a few pics.

I've toyed with the idea of having a shaper or router cutter ground to spec and running wood roofs.  Might seem a little primitive, but would be inexpensive after the initial cost for the tooling.  Wood roofs were fairly common for clerestory car kits 30 years ago (even in N scale), a streamlined roof would be simple by comparison.

The lack of core kits must be impacting the makers of car sides. Unfortunately, I suspect they are all such small companies that no one can afford to take on the project for a new core kit.

Tom D

[wcfn100]

I've toyed with the idea of having a shaper or router cutter ground to spec and running wood roofs.  Might seem a little primitive, but would be inexpensive after the initial cost for the tooling.  Wood roofs were fairly common for clerestory car kits 30 years ago (even in N scale), a streamlined roof would be simple by comparison.

I used a 1/4 round to shape the roof on this baggage car.  The vents remain a problem.



I've thought about RP'ing the roof with the vents just to compare the two.

Jason

[arbomambo]

I feel your pain...
I also have many passenger car projects in the works that sure could benefit from another release of the core kits...
until then, it's 'cannibalization'.....
I'm acquiring old Kato Budd coaches for my M&R Budd projects, Walthers cars for my ACF projects (as you stated, not perfect, and still need some cutting/trimming), and trying to acquire as many core kits as possible.
~Bruce

[thomasjmdavis]

Another upside to the Walthers NYC coaches- they have the seamed roof common to PS cars of the late 40s and early 50s- can save a lot of roof work if you happen to need that for the prototype you are modeling.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I know how you feel. I was finally able to measure the success of an MBTA Messerschmitt car and the core kit would be perfect along with scratch built sides. Now, no core kits available.

[OldEastRR]

I'm putting brass car sides on ConCor bodies for a friend -- the brass sides are only a half-foot longer than the ConCor cars. I've carefully cut off 3 scale inches from each end of the sides and it's not noticeable. ConCor cars are plentiful and cheap; I prefer using the full baggage cars to avoid having too much of the sides gone from the new window holes and the originals. I want as much surface as possible for the brass sheets to glue to.
I think KATO passenger cars are the best candidates for core kits. The interiors can be removed and reworked, the underbody details can be removed and moved a round or correct ones added, and both the ACF and Pullman style roofs are available. The bonuses are the excellent trucks and flawless lighting system, which makes any of these "core kits" match stock KATO cars for these two features.
The best acquisition option is to buy complete train sets. Buying at discount retailers, you can get the cars for around $17 each. Plus you get 9 pieces of Unitrack either for yourself or to sell at auction along with the cars you can't use.  One thing to watch for however is the KATO cars exactly match the lengths of their prototypes. For instance, the Broadway Limited cars are slightly shorter than the COLA's.
I used a BL 10-6 as a core for the ESM NH 14-4 sleeper sides. Not only was the roof the correct Pullman roof, I was able to cut up and rearrange the 10-6 interior to match NH car's floor plan. And it lights up!

[Ngineer]

Another upside to the Walthers NYC coaches- they have the seamed roof common to PS cars of the late 40s and early 50s

How do you model the seams on an American Limited core kit roof? I am building a passenger car right now, but I can't figure out a decent way to make those seams.

Oh, are M&R car sides still available? I thought that Brass Car Sides was the lone survivor in this market.

Javier

[nickelplate759]

On the American Limited core kit, I carefully scribe the roof seams.  It's a bit tedious.  I use a zip-tie as a guide, a technique I learned from a write-up by Bryan Bussey.

Vendors of car sides include:

Athabasca: http://www.athabascashops.com/
Brass Car Sides: http://www.brasscarsides.com/
GHQ: http://www.ghqmodels.com/
Eastern Seaboard: http://www.esmc.com/
Laser Horizons
Union Station Products: http://www.unionstationproducts.com/
Laserkit: http://www.laserkit.com/
M&R - I think these are being made at most sporadically, as the owner is busy with his day job.

Mr. Laboda has a web site that details what's available (or has been available):  http://n-scalevarnish.info/index/varnish/UsersGuide/

[spookshow]

Des Plaines Hobbies includes an American Ltd core as part of their passenger car kits. Not a very practical way to get a core (since said kits cost $27). But then again, if you have unlimited funds and just gotta have one... 

Cheers,
-Mark

[bbussey]

I think Mike Skibbe is actually the person who came up with how to scribe the zip-tie roof seams, if I remember correctly.

I've actually started turning to using existing models as core kits and removing the sides. Between the Kato and Walthers releases, more often than not a body/roof configuration can be found to match or come close to the prototype I want to model. This is especially true of Budd prototypes with the fluted roofs and different ends from what was offered with the ALM kits.  The underbody detail on any model easily can be kitbashed to any desired configuration.  Even as the Walthers cars are drying up, various Kato models remain available.

The same concept can be applied to Micro-Trains heavyweights and Wheels Of Time head-end equipment.

[bbussey]

I used a 1/4 round to shape the roof on this baggage car.  The vents remain a problem.

I've thought about RP'ing the roof with the vents just to compare the two.

You have the roof already. Just RP the vents. The process is better suited for small detail parts over large body parts anyway.

[jmlaboda]

Oh, are M&R car sides still available? I thought that Brass Car Sides was the lone survivor in this market.

He's alive and well, and very busy... the link below will let you know what he has been making...

http://n-scalevarnish.info/M&R_Models.htm

[chicken45]

What's a zip tie roof seam?

[thomasjmdavis]

The roof seams we were referring to- check the roof of the ATSF chair car in this photo

http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-co2929jpa.jpg

A zip tie is flexed over the car roof and used as a guide to scribe the seams.