KATO UP FEF official announcement

[up1950s]

Or it could be that the drawbar is not connected , and the tender is just pushed into the loco past the drawbar attachment point .

[robert3985]

Or it could be that the drawbar is not connected , and the tender is just pushed into the loco past the drawbar attachment point .

Since I'm in a betting mood...I'm betting this might be a possibility.      but, I hope not.

Looking closely at the photo, there are wires connected and what appears to be a drawbar in at nice, perpendicular angle to the tender face...Nope...on second thought, I think that the tender not being connected in these photos is very unlikely.  My logic says that if it wasn't connected, then the wires wouldn't be connected either...and they definitely look like they are.

Of course, maybe whomever is displaying this model has also stuck the wires up into some recess to make it look like they're connected, but that seems to be a lot of effort to go to since this obviously is a pilot model, or close to it...and they don't care or know the whistle's on backwards or that the drivers are painted differently...so why go to all that bother just to make the tender look closely coupled?

[Sokramiketes]

Two interesting items appeared in the Kato parts catalog... Coreless Motor (FEF) and Excursion Diaphragms.

I'm guessing the latter means Kato will be doing the tubular modern diaphrams to add to the original smoothside cars.  That will be a nice touch.

[robert3985]

Here are some new pics that I've enlarged and Photoshopped to bring out details.  These answer some questions and pose a few new ones.  Enjoy!









Aftermarket DCC is going to be fun, but looks like installation will be a virtual drop-in, except I don't see a provision for speaker mounting in the tender or any vents.

Running boards represent the early perforated metal rather than the later "expanded" metal type, which puts this engine even deeper into the steam era.

I couldn't pull up many pertinent detail on top of the oil bunker, but from what I'm seeing, it's looking more and more as if the oil bunker is detailed to represent a 1950's FEF-3.

Looks like the tender "articulation" is indeed a combination of monkey-motion at the drawbar and lots of sideways motion on several of the pedestal wheelsets.

Also, the separate cab will make a model of the 844/8444 with its characteristic "cab droop" easy to accomplish as is illustrated in this shot:


All in all, I'm glad I've got my pre-orders in!!  I think this locomotive and associated cars is going to be a huge hit for Kato, which bodes well for further American steam!

[nightmare0331]

I could care less that you used my photos, but it would be nice if you posted where and who they came from.

Kelley.

[robert3985]

I could care less that you used my photos, but it would be nice if you posted where and who they came from.

Kelley.

Okay.  I downloaded these from a post by "nightmare 0331" over at TB, then enlarged them and Photoshopped them to bring out the details.  He signs his name "Kelley".

THANKS!! 

My apologies.  I was in a big hurry to get these up before I left for an appointment.

Did you take these photos?

[Leggy]

Pretty clear the tender 'articulation' is actually 2 inside frame bogies sitting behind the rigid sideframe. Means the tender has 3 bogies, the leading 2 axle one, a 3 axle one in the middle and a 2 axle one at the rear. Rather clever.

[robert3985]

Pretty clear the tender 'articulation' is actually 2 inside frame bogies sitting behind the rigid sideframe. Means the tender has 3 bogies, the leading 2 axle one, a 3 axle one in the middle and a 2 axle one at the rear. Rather clever.

If I squint I can see that!  Yup, quite innovative, and preserves the outward appearance.  I'm happy.

[up1950s]

If I squint I can see that!  Yup, quite innovative, and preserves the outward appearance.  I'm happy.

That was done on the HO Rivarossi Big Boy in 1972 . That's been a pedestal tender norm to be expected .

[delamaize]

ok, I really need to get my order in......

[Paradise275]

Hi Bob.
Thanks for the pictures. I'm interested in your comment about "DCC installation is going to be fun".
Does that mean difficult because you have to take the locomotive apart?
I bought a Kobo GS-4 from Kato with the sound and was truly disappointed with the quality.
That's why I'm not sure if I should buy one of these locos with the sound decoder in place. If there is no provision for a speaker, what kind of volume will you expect to get out of it.
The loco looks great with a lot of useful features but I'm not sure if Kato has the interests of the North American model railroader at heart when it comes to DCC and sound.

Rick

[peteski]

I bought a Kobo GS-4 from Kato with the sound and was truly disappointed with the quality.

I never bought a Kobo model.  Do you know what type of decoder they used?  Where and how is the speaker mounted? Is the speaker in an enclosure?

That's why I'm not sure if I should buy one of these locos with the sound decoder in place. If there is no provision for a speaker, what kind of volume will you expect to get out of it.

Is Kato going to be selling these with sound decoder installed?

The loco looks great with a lot of useful features but I'm not sure if Kato has the interests of the North American model railroader at heart when it comes to DCC and sound.

Rick

Is Kato really interested in mobile sound decoders in any of their models (US, Japanese or European prototype)?  I don't think they sell any DCC-sound equipped models anywhere.  Kobo models are very low-volume custom-made models.  A fraction of their total production run.

This is TRW. Most modelers here have no problem installing sound decoders and achieving excellent sound quality in models not designed for sound (or even for just DCC decoders).  I doubt that lack of an opening for a speaker in the tender of the FEF will stop many modelers from buying this model and equipping it with a sound decoder.

[nightmare0331]

The handful of GS4's with sound that Kato built had Digitrax sound decoders installed (due to the goofy nature of the GS4 design, there was a DZ123 in the boiler  for motor function and forward mars light, and in the tender there was a SFX 0416 sound decoder with rear LED).  These were basically one offs that were built by a gentleman in Japan for the Kobo project.

There is provisions in the tender of the FEF design to take a standard ESU rectangular speaker and housing (housing not installed, off the top of my head I don't recall exactly what size), however at this point Kato isn't offering any sound offerings in the FEF.  The DCC Kobo versions will feature a Train Control Systems decoder installed here in the US.  At some point, once these models are out, for future runs sound is being considered, but not guaranteed.

Hope this helps!

Kelley.

[Paradise275]

The sound decoder installed in the GS-4 was Digitrax. I think it ran with the Kato decoder in the loco. Perhaps if I change the Digitrax sound decoder in the tender for an ESU LocSound decoder I will be happier. That's why I won't buy a Kobo one. They charge an exorbitant price and it may or may not be great. And no returns.

The one other question was do I have to take the locomotive apart to install a decoder and how hard will that be?
Rick

[robert3985]

Hi Bob.
Thanks for the pictures. I'm interested in your comment about "DCC installation is going to be fun".
Does that mean difficult because you have to take the locomotive apart?
I bought a Kobo GS-4 from Kato with the sound and was truly disappointed with the quality.
That's why I'm not sure if I should buy one of these locos with the sound decoder in place. If there is no provision for a speaker, what kind of volume will you expect to get out of it.
The loco looks great with a lot of useful features but I'm not sure if Kato has the interests of the North American model railroader at heart when it comes to DCC and sound.

Rick

I just copied the photos from TB.  I believe that nightmare0331 (Kelley) is the author, so I thank him for these pre-production shots.

I love a challenge, but it appears that installing a decoder in this model may not be much more difficult than installing a decoder in the Kato E's and F's if DCC manufacturers step up to the plate and design a "drop-in" for it.  Sound is always more of a challenge simply because finding a spot for a speaker is added work (sometimes a LOT of added work).  The tender on this model looks to be plenty large to house a speaker, and if Kelley says it has provision for an ESU speaker enclosure, that will make it easier.  I prefer to make my own enclosures, and venting is sometimes an interesting problem to solve.  Even if this tender doesn't have obvious venting (I can't see ANY venting) adding it won't be a problem.  In my experience, you always have to take an engine apart to install DCC, and finding a spot for a speaker usually means even "deeper" disassembly. From the photos, it looks as if disassembling this model won't be any more difficult than the Athearn Big Boys and Challengers...and they're pretty easy (I use them as an example because their tenders are prototypically nearly identical).  However, the Athearn models have DCC sound already installed, so changing the decoders is simply a matter of opening up the tender, unplugging the old decoder and plugging in a new one...then soldering the speaker leads...and reassembling the tender.  The Kato model won't be that easy.  Hopefully Kato has designed the electronics in this model so that chassis disassembly isn't necessary for DCC installs.

Drilling some holes into the bottom of the tender chassis under a downward firing speaker inside an airtight speaker enclosure will give you more than enough volume.  I turn the volume down on my Tsunami equipped Athearn Big Boys and Challengers after a show...where they are clearly audible.  I am planning on installing Micro-Tsunami TSU 750 "Heavy Steam" decoders into my FEF's simply because out of all the sound decoders, the whistle in the TSU decoder is most correct, and I use whistle signals a lot when operating.  Remember, Big Boys, Challengers and FEF-2's and FEF-3's used a lot of interchangeable parts, the whistle being one of them.  The 844 in its present configuration broke her whistle a few years ago, and it was quickly replaced with a whistle off a Big Boy being statically displayed which was near the incident.  Both Big Boys and FEF's had 300psi boiler pressure, so the whistles were identical in their sound quality.

I am quite happy with both the running qualities and sound coming out of the TSU Micro-Tsunamis although other model railroaders have reported problems with them overheating and having low-speed problems.  I have a lot of them, and I don't experience ANY of these problems for whatever reason, even during long continuous running at shows, with the sound volume turned clear up, so I am not expecting any running or reliability problems with my Kato FEF-3/Tsunami installs.

In any case, I'm almost sure that this model will be easier to get DCC sound into than the GS-4.  If your sound coming out of your GS-4 doesn't have enough volume, it's most likely because of the speaker either not being in an airtight enclosure (I mean air-TIGHT), not having sufficient venting for the sound to escape or a speaker that's the wrong impedance...or a combination of these.

So...a big part of the "fun" for me is the conjecture that's involved about what will need to be done to do something to this model.  Some of what I've said above is conjecture, and it'll be "fun" for me to get my FEF's...test their running qualities, then get down to DCC-izing them...no matter how difficult it may be.  It never becomes "work" for me.  It's always "fun".

My answer to your quandary is this: (1) Buy your FEF's without decoders, then install sound decoders of your choice along with a correct speaker installation.  If this isn't fun for you, then have someone else do it, but at least you get to specify what decoder and speaker you want. (2)  If you want to be able to immediately run your engines on your DCC layout, then buy them with non-sound DCC, then install sound decoders as per what will inevitably be posted by several "experts" who love to do this sort of thing.  My most respected "expert" is jdcolombo, and I'm certain he will be promptly posting his solution and results along with a video or two very soon after he receives his FEF.

As to whether Kato has the interests of the US DCC sound market share at heart...so what?  We'll do the job anyway, just like we did with the GS-4.