KATO UP FEF official announcement

[arbomambo]

I'll be in for two...
I would love for Bob Gilmore to chime in and see if he can ascertain whether the loco will be accurate  (a la the drawings on Kato's site) for the late 50's era...and if not, what must be done to accurize it...
~Bruce

[up1950s]

I'll be in for two...
I would love for Bob Gilmore to chime in and see if he can ascertain whether the loco will be accurate  (a la the drawings on Kato's site) for the late 50's era...and if not, what must be done to accurize it...
~Bruce

Their literature states



But I am not positive if there were any changes from 1959 to 2005 , I have books but not the time to look this up now . My guess would be yes , but guesses isn't what is wanted . That box on top of the tender is post 1959 .

[C855B]

Their literature states



But I am not positive if there were any changes from 1959 to 2005 , I have books but not the time to look this up now . My guess would be yes , but guesses isn't what is wanted . That box on top of the tender is post 1959 .

Hmmm! This makes me wonder if they're talking about the changes made to the water bottles! The welded jacketing, insulation and unused fuel heater piping from their oil days was removed in 2005 to increase capacity (by decreasing weight). If so, then I will hold off on the nice pre-2005 Shapeways tenders I have (by James Norris), currently sitting on my bench. OTOH, they're talking about the version with the US flag panel, and I think that came with the rebuild? Maybe?

While on one hand they're offering the water bottles separately for us Athearn Challenger folks (which they inferred), I'm slightly disappointed they're forcing the entire trainset as a unit. Like a lot of Kato fans, I have 15+ years' worth of their UP passenger cars, and aside from lettering, 5 of the 7 cars will be dupes. I'd like to get just the two new cars. Then again, this is also the modern train, so these aren't necessarily the cars of 20-30 years ago, which would be what I want to run.

Still some kitbashing in my future, I s'pose. [sigh] I'll add it to the list o'million-to-dos that might get done.

[peteski]

They might always offer the loco separately later (in the next run?)

[C855B]

By "entire trainset" I meant all the cars as a single package. The loco is a separate item, listed with or without DCC. So... loco, tender pair and car package are each line items to be bought separately, for a total MSRP of $604, $739 with DCC and lighted cars. Enough to test one's "fanhood", I guess.

[robert3985]

I've been closely perusing the 3D drawings that are now available on the KatoUSA site.

I've got several comments that will answer some of your questions about what era this FEF-3 will be if the drawings and comments on the website are correct.

(1) As Kato states, this model is of the 844 prior to the 2005 shopping.  There are a couple of detail differences in the engine itself between its present appearance and pre-2005 as well as cosmetic differences that would be represented by paint.  The first thing to look for is that there is only one generator up on top on the fireman's side.  This fits both 1950's era (and earlier) up to prior to the 2005 shopping.  There's no firecracker antenna on the rear of the cab (according to the 3D drawings), so you don't need to fill a hole in the top of the cab to be 1950's compliant.  The 844 as it is now has some fancy chrome (nickel?) plated fixtures on the boiler, which are very obvious against the shiny black paint.  Looks to me like this model won't have those locations painted.

(2) The tender, from the side and in 3/4 views looks very nice.  I was worried about the articulation of the pedestal, but if the drawings are accurate, you won't be able to see it maybe unless you're running it on under 18" radii.  Unfortunately, you can't see the top of the oil bunker or the rear of the tender.  However, looking at prototype photos, the oil spill dams and the vents are pretty high and would be prominent in the side views.  This leads me to think that maybe they're not doing all the "furniture" on the oil bunker.

(3) There are no "fins" on the cab roof, top hatch or on the steam turret on this model.  These six horizontal "fins" were put on all coal FEF-3's to prevent cinders from getting into the cab.  When these engines were converted to oil in 1946, the fins running across the cab and steam turret were left on, and taken off as the engines were shopped.  This relegates this model to a post-1954 844 because the fins stayed on the two tone gray 844 and came off when it was shopped and re-painted black again.

(4) Other observations are about 90% good. 
(A) There are some details that I wish would have been separate, but on the other hand, there are obviously lots of separate details.
(B) The pilot looks pretty good, with an odd "line" along the where the pilot joins the crossmember, which may be where two pieces join or a weld.  On the prototype, the swing-coupler pilot on the FEF-3's were cast, and had no bolts or welds.
(C) Nice detailing on the compressors and associated piping under the smokebox and alongside the pilot.  A big, empty space here would have really detracted from the look.
(D) Smoke lifters look good, with inner bracing but the upper mounting brackets being (understandably) coarser than I would have liked.
(E) The headlight and red Mars Light look very good, with proper colored lenses and good details.
(F) Running lights and number boards also look quite good, especially since the number boards are going to be lit!!
(G) The bell is pretty good, with a delicate bell mount.
(H) Boiler details look nice, with separate handrails running along the boiler and well-shaped stanchions holding it. 
(I) Throttle linkages on the engineer's side is cast on, as are all of the hand grabs.
(J) Hand grabs above the cab window are cast on, and look shallow.
(K) In some views, it looks like the walkway alongside the boiler has an expanded metal "texture"...which would be good.
(L) In the 3/4 views, it looks as if the firebox front surfaces are well modeled and extend prototypically under the boiler.  This detail is usually left off plastic steam models.
(M) In the 3/4 views, it also appears that Kato has modeled the details under the firebox (the pan), which extend down to the trailing truck.  Usually, this area is totally ignored and there's a big empty space here.  This is excellent!
(N) Lots of separate piping and fixtures going on under the walkways.  This looks very good.

Overall, I'm buying between 4 and 6 of 'em.  I guess I'm happy and none of mine are going to be for excursion service as I model from 1947 through 1956.

The first thing I'll do is file off the cast on handgrab over the cab windows and replace that with stanchions and a wire grab.  This one detail that Kato is not including as a stand-off detail really detracts from the overall "character" IMO.

I'll have to see what details are on the oil bunker, but if they're not correct for my era, I'll make 'em correct.

I'll also put some "fins" on some of them according to dated photos.

I'll replace some, if not all, any cast-on grabs with stand-off wire ones.

I'll detail out the smokebox face with electrical conduit to both lights, to the classification lights and the number boards.  I'll also drill a hole and put a pipe into the top of the bell.

I'll go over the boiler and add a little conduit and piping detail to fill some obvious lacks (if any)...such as conduit coming off the generator.

Then, I'll work on the cab window details, by opening the cab windows, modifying the armrest and the awning. I'll open the roof hatch on some of 'em.

Next, I'll remove the cast-on throttle linkage and rods, and replace them with brass versions.

I'll see about adding some conduit or pipe details to the tender if it needs 'em.

Then I'll repaint, renumber and weather.

Somewhere in there, I'll add an engine crew.

Although this seems like a lot of things to do, they should be pretty simple, with no major modifications needed and most being additions...with only one major removal.

Fun fun fun...I'm really hyped!! 

[EspeeGoldenState]

Ok, that makes almost no sense. They are doing the pre2005 version of 844, but the post 2009 version of auxiliary water tenders and the UPP 5779.

Either way, I will live with loco as it is, as I can run all the rest of the cars behind modern power for a business train. I just wish they would have kept it era correct on both parts.

Chris

[up1950s]

A fortune cookie had this ... " Happiness is having a short memory " . There are always era errors , as long as it is not a glaring one don't glare at it . You live with plastic ties , etc . Be happy . 

[robert3985]

I thought I'd post this, which gives a much clearer idea that putting together a "correct" unmodified Kato 844 along with the Kato water tenders might not be too easy.

This version of the 844 is the 1954 to 1962 version, with a single generator up on top and no firecracker antenna on the back of the cab, with Worthington SA Feedwater Heater, oil-fired, no "fins" on the cab, cab hatch and steam turret, with smoke lifters (wings) and painted black.

After perusing the 3D drawings some more, it looks as if Kato has done a pretty good job of capturing the 844...or a typical FEF-3 post 1954, so this engine could be easily renumbered 835 through 844 for mid to late 50's operation in both freight, helper and non-priority passenger service.

So, what years and what era does this specific Kato unmodified model best represent?

(1) Transition Era Service:

The Kato model is not representative of an FEF-3 from its delivery in 1944 to 1950 for several reasons. First, the 844 was originally coal-fired and this model represents an oil fired engine with no coal bunker or ash pans on the firebox. In 1946, all FEF's were converted to oil and painted two-tone gray with either silver or Armour Yellow stripes. I've got a photo of the 844 in two-tone gray in 1947, and it's got smoke lifters. Most FEF's also had six horizontal "fins" on the steam turret and cab, leftovers from their coal fired days, and the 844 had them. All the FEF's retained their "Greyhound Scheme" until they were shopped, around 1953-1954, got the "fins" removed (if they still had them) and were repainted black. During their oil years, all FEF-3's were eventually equipped with Worthington SA Feedwater Heaters, which required the smokebox to be extended about a foot.  I've got a photo of a gray 844 in the Ogden Union Station in 1953 without "fins" and still without the Worthington SA heater.  When it got the SA heater isn't clear, but probably around 1954.

I haven't seen the top of the oil bunker on the 3D drawings of the tender, so I can't comment on its suitability for ANY time period...other than it's oil, and black...so it's post 1954.

This model has the Worthington SA heater obviously in front of the double stack, and the pump for it between the 2nd and 3rd drivers under the left running board, has smoke lifters, is oil-fired, has no "fins" and is black. In this configuration the Kato model is just right for running regular service on a U.P. layout post 1954 to 1959.


(2) Excursion Service Without Water Tenders:

For excursion service, this model is just right for running most anywhere from 1960 to 1962 without water tenders.  In 1962 she was renumbered to 8444 until 1989.  In 1987 she was painted two-tone gray until 1999.  The 844 was given a minor tune up in the Summer of 1960 and was pulling excursions by that November.  Always with driver and lead truck tires and the edge of the running boards painted white (with the lower curving edge of the smoke "wings" curving down to the pilot) and the journal boxes painted aluminum.  Cylinder covers were not nickel plated, but were shiny black.


(3) Excursion Service With Water Tenders:

In 1989, the two tenders were assigned to the U.P. Heritage Fleet, cleaned up, and painted and used behind both the 844 and the 3985. At this point, neither tender looks like what Kato's tenders look like and weren't numbered 809 & 814.

These two tenders were refurbished and restored back to their steam configuration between 2005 through 2008. Tender 814 went into the shop in December of 2005 and was back in service in July 2006. Tender 809 went into the shop in late 2006 and was back in service in August 2008.

Also, the 844 had been painted in two-tone gray from 1987 until 1999.

In 1999, the 844 got a major shopping after a boiler failure at Railfair 1999.  This shopping lasted 6 years and she ran again in 2005 repainted in gloss black.  I believe this is when she got the twin generators and firecracker antenna.  The Kato 844 doesn't have either.

Using the Kato water tenders, the Kato 844 would be okay running with the Kato 814 water tender between July 2006 to August 2008 with the addition of another generator and the firecracker antenna.

Post 2008, both of the water bottles are correct, but the engine still needs another generator up top and a firecracker antenna.

The 3D drawings don't give a good view of the top of the tender, so I can't comment on it, other than to say in the 3/4 views, there doesn't appear to be much "furniture" up on top. If this is because there actually isn't anything to see...not because the 3D drawing isn't complete...then it could be that all the spill dams, piping, and other modern fixtures aren't there. That'd be nice for me. The other possibility is that the top of the oil bunker will be detailed to pre-2005 levels...with less "stuff".

It looks as if it'd be difficult to get it "perfect" unless you've got a photo of the 844 in excursion service and you can modify her to fit the photos. The dichotomy of building a non-"modern" version of the engine vs the definitely "modern" water tenders is ironic, but probably good marketing. Further "good marketing" would definitely include an excursion era renumbering to 8444 in both black and gray, and an excursion era gray 844 since she ran 13 years in TTGray to 1999.

The Kato 844 in pure stock, unmodified form is incorrect for running either or both Kato Water Tenders any year.  However, the simple addition of another generator and a firecracker antenna centered on the back of the cab will make it correct post July 2006 for the 814 Water Tender and post 2008 for both Kato Water Tenders.

I'm guessing that some mods on the 844's oil bunker will be necessary for correct post-2005 appearance, and maybe for Transition Era operation too.  But, that's just a guess.  We'll have to wait for a better view of the top of the oil bunker.

[Leggy]

Rob, at a guess and going by the CAD drawings and seeing no joint lines, the tender 'articulation' is more likely to be along the lines of the tender wheels not having pinpoint axles but rather nothing extending past the wheel faces and an 'inside bearing' setup like the Amfleets Kato did. That'd allow them to have 1 or 2 fixed axles and the rest with a heap of lateral play to get around tight curves. Might require some fiddling if it results in some odd running characteristics (wobbly a$$ to the tender).

[up1950s]

I'm excited,happy,  and kinda disappointed. Only thing I wish they would have done was UPP 9336 (the express boxcar). Glad that the 5 cars I've collected are not part of the 7 car set, but wish there had been more than 7 as well.

Oh well, the water tenders alone are fantastic.

I really wish they would have done Howard Fogg and Reed Jackson.

Maybe they saw an opportunity to double their profits whilst doubling our fun . Could it be that a second run might have 8444 and different cars . Maybe a third run with the greyhound theme . A forth run with a back dated oil tank top details and numbers from the FEF-3 class 835-844 to cover the end  of regular steam class in the 50's . I can see this as a very prolific money tree , especially if it has a tendency not to break .

EDIT
Apparently as Bob has already said better than me above .

[John]

I wonder if they will make a Chessie version?

[Flagler]

I placed my order for the whole train. Just what I need another 7 up passenger cars.
I would hate myself for not owning the entire set

[delamaize]

I'm planning on ordering a single locomotive, once a few things change on the financial end here......then I'm going to keep an eye on the 2nd hand market, in anticipation that, like the GS4 people will mess a few up, and sell them for cheap......mmmmmm.....scratchbuild fodder......

[CBQ Fan]

I will get the loco and the tenders.  The set of cars don't work for me as they are too new.  The tenders are too new also but just too cool to pass up on.