How about this little beauty for NE-style homes?

[jimmo]

[quote author=Rich_S link=topic=32898.msg375280#msg375280 date=1400271084

In my opinion, model railroading is all about illusion and compromise. If it looks like a house and the doors and windows are not horribly over sized, then it's good. When it comes right down to it, you can critique anything in model railroading and find fault. An example; I have yet to find any prototype locomotive that has a giant electric motor in the center of the carbody, with that motor connected to gear towers via drive shafts. Knuckle couplers don't split in the middle on the prototype and when you push them to one side, they stay in that position, i.e. there is not a centering spring in prototype coupler boxes. We all approach the hobby differently, I enjoy the operation aspect of the hobby, others enjoy creating realistic scenes. While some folks might think that FSM makes the greatest structure kits in the world, I would never pay that kind of money for something that for me is just scenery. Again just my two cents worth and your mileage may vary.     


Well said.

Mark in Oregon

I have to disagree with your quoted statement: "...model railroading is all about illusion and compromise." IMO model railroading is more about recreation of reality in miniature. Illusion and compromise are just some of the realities we face as we attempt to accomplish the task. Unlike the quote: "...something that for me is just scenery," I look at scenery as an equally important aspect of what I'm doing in miniature. Every element helps tie it together in a believable environment for my trains to do their thing. And to others, if plopping a prebuilt structure down does it for you, then you have accomplished this task in your little world. Some of us are not that easily convinced.

I realize that some of you are content to run trains and the rest is just "fluff" but some of us see model railroading as an art form. Some like running bright, cheerfully colored, 200MPH trains, some model their memories of childhood or idealistic worlds. There is nothing wrong with havn' it your way--we all have different pursuits. But I like think that (as a forum), we are all striving to better our modeling skills by learning from one another and bouncing ideas off each other in order to do so.

[central.vermont]

I have to disagree with your quoted statement: "...model railroading is all about illusion and compromise." IMO model railroading is more about recreation of reality in miniature. Illusion and compromise are just some of the realities we face as we attempt to accomplish the task. Unlike the quote: "...something that for me is just scenery," I look at scenery as an equally important aspect of what I'm doing in miniature. Every element helps tie it together in a believable environment for my trains to do their thing. And to others, if plopping a prebuilt structure down does it for you, then you have accomplished this task in your little world. Some of us are not that easily convinced.

I realize that some of you are content to run trains and the rest is just "fluff" but some of us see model railroading as an art form. Some like running bright, cheerfully colored, 200MPH trains, some model their memories of childhood or idealistic worlds. There is nothing wrong with havn' it your way--we all have different pursuits. But I like think that (as a forum), we are all striving to better our modeling skills by learning from one another and bouncing ideas off each other in order to do so.

Well put jimmo!!!

Jon

[Power Stroke]

While I don't have any skin in this game, I am somewhat surprised by the attitudes towards WS' attempts at N scale structures, kit form or otherwise.
I am not a master modeler or detailer, nor do I have the time to be, so if I find an easy kit or pre built that fits my needs, and does not look like crap, I'll spend the money, afterall
it's my money to spend, is it not?
DKS and others here have mad skills, and I am constantly amazed at what I see, so I understand a jaded eye, I go through this on a daily basis in my trade, where my work and skills are the standard by which I judge others, however, I will never belittle someone else's efforts if they do not meet my standards, I leave it alone knowing that I am still the best.
I find it funny that right off the bat, WS was given strife for producing a product that, and I paraphrase, has so much wrong with it, that I don't know where to start, yet, not even a couple of posts later, there is a picture of a house which is almost identical, down to the color of paint.
Still, some members doubt the reallity of it. What gives?
On the Atlas board, I asked for help on a road crossing at a 4 track X crossing. Oh boy did the naysayers come out in force to tell me that not such a thing existed, however, when multiple pics from google eath showed up to counter my foolishness and foobiness, not a one stepped up to admit their closemindedness.
I think product like this have their niche, buyers who neither have the time or skills to stratch build or super detail but would like something on their layout that does not look like a vintage Lionel toy train layout, and does not contain buildings all designed after euorpean protos.
Through the observation of the "upper echelon" on this board and the old Atlas board, I know my skills, and more importantly, my patience has improved over the years, so I would not be afraid to attempt a craftsman kit, however, there are only so many hours in the day, so if I had the room to place this "little beauty" on my layout, I would do it, and be good with it, damn the naysayers.
BTW, this hobby is full of compromise, case in point is jimmo's line of vehicles, while outstanding, when was the last time you saw a vehicle with resin glass? How about Showcase's vehicles with no interior or glass? These are just a couple of examples of compromise, and entire pages could be produced with other examples by everyone that develops, and produces product for us, to in reality, escape reality.
Just my

[tehachapifan]

I dunno....I think the "illusion and compromise" statement has merit too. I am usually one of those over-the-top accuracy guys and all too often will find myself digging myself a hole of realism despair when I may even be only trying to design something. I'll have a cool idea in my head, only to conclude that it "wouldn't really be done that way in the real world" and finally give up. This usually has more to do with space availability then anything else. Then I'll see something similar that someone else came up with...and actually finished by applying some well-placed compromises...and it looks absolutely fantastic. Personally, I think the WS house in question looks pretty darn good. I suppose, if you start to examine the overall dimensions and question how the interior layout would work, you can find fault. Even so, it seems like something that would fit into a (well-executed) scene pretty nicely.

[strummer]

I have to disagree with your quoted statement: "...model railroading is all about illusion and compromise."

I realize that some of you are content to run trains and the rest is just "fluff" but some of us see model railroading as an art form. Some like running bright, cheerfully colored, 200MPH trains, some model their memories of childhood or idealistic worlds. There is nothing wrong with havn' it your way--we all have different pursuits. But I like think that (as a forum), we are all striving to better our modeling skills by learning from one another and bouncing ideas off each other in order to do so.

Why use such extreme examples?

I like making my stuff as realistic as I can, but I know my engines run on electricity,not diesel or steam, my people and vehicles don't move,well you get the idea...

Mark in Oregon

[Rich_S]

I have to disagree with your quoted statement: "...model railroading is all about illusion and compromise." IMO model railroading is more about recreation of reality in miniature. Illusion and compromise are just some of the realities we face as we attempt to accomplish the task. Unlike the quote: "...something that for me is just scenery," I look at scenery as an equally important aspect of what I'm doing in miniature. Every element helps tie it together in a believable environment for my trains to do their thing.

You're disagreeing with me but at the same time you're agreeing with me? If your trees don't contain miniature leaves, then you've compromised. Do every one of your structures have detailed interiors? If not, then you've compromised. Are you able to keep your minimum radius to 5 degrees? If not you've compromised. Is all of your track laid on scale sized ties, with the rails resting on tie places held in place by scale sized spikes and the track sections held together by scale sized fishplates? And remember ties are square, they are not eight inches wide by two inches thick. I can continue on to Ad nauseam, but hopefully you understand my point? I'm not saying go out and buy department 56 houses, plop them down on the layout and claim you have a well detailed town, but on the other hand these Woodland Scenics structures look a lot better than some of the building offered by other manufactures.  Just because I'm new here does not mean I'm new to model railroading. One of the greatest lessons I've learn in model railroading came from Allen McClelland several years ago. Allen uses a good enough approach meaning, if you'll never see the back of a building why waste the time to detail it. When I look at the Woodland Scenics buildings, I'm not looking for kitbash fodder, I judge each one on it's own merit. Of all of Wood Land Scenics products, the one I'd criticize would be their ballast. Why are they using clay instead of crushed stone? But that is a different topic. So yes, I still stand by my previous statement that model railroading is about illusion, as in forced perspectives and compromise, as in I cannot have 2 degree curves on my HCD layout, but when you view my layout it does look like a model of it's prototype.  Finally buildings, trees, hills, roads, cars, trucks, etc. are scenery, the trains are the main focal point. I believe Frank Ellison stated best, the layout is the stage, the trains are the actors and the timetable is the plot. But again each person approaches the hobby differently, if you're not into operation that's OK as well. 

[jimmo]

You're disagreeing with me but at the same time you're agreeing with me?

Apparently Rich, you missed my point entirely. Maybe I should have said, I disagree with the notion that model railroading is all about illusion and compromise. Then you might have spared us the lengthy explanation of what you thought I didn't understand. I disagree that model railroading is all about illusion and compromise but (I think I stated that) illusion and compromise are some of the realities we face in our task to recreate reality in miniature--however we go about it. Whether it's just running trains and not giving a hoot about the scenery or spending inordinate amounts of time detailing everything in sight--there is no right or wrong in your basement or garage (or office in my case). But as manufacturers, you have to realize (and I'm thinking that most of us on the forum agree) that we strive to be as accurate and believable as humanly possible with the products we expect you guys to buy from us. If some of us think that one of our fellow manufacturers is compromising too much, chances are we not going to keep quiet--after all isn't that what a forum is all about?

[jimmo]

I believe Frank Ellison stated best, the layout is the stage, the trains are the actors and the timetable is the plot.

One thing Frank Ellison failed to consider in his description was that in theatre, oftentimes the scenery is abstract, even vague or nonexistent. Back in Frank's day operation was everything. Today, some of us are not as easily convinced.

[mmagliaro]

Agreed, I'm not too impressed with the commercial/industrial buildings, but IMHO the the gas station, cottage and the subject of this thread, the second empire-ish Victorian make very good fodder for respectable structures. There is a strikingly similar Victorian here in Etiwanda, Ca., built around 1884 and recently restored, near the Santa Fe mainline into Los Angeles. Take off the flower pots and some of the curlicues, fix the misaligned dormers, and you have a very well proportioned modest house appropriate for many locations all over the country. Calling it an embarrassment seems a bit strong...
Otto K.

I am totally with Otto on this one.   I don't see why people think this thing is so wretched.  The bright colors, and the cluttery appearance are not very different at all from many Victorian houses I've seen.  The flower boxes and flower pots look too fake to save.  But these are minor things that one can take off if you don't like them.    A little weathering to tone down the overall bright "clean-ness" (which you would do to any model), and it looks perfectly acceptable.

[peteski]

I am totally with Otto on this one.   I don't see why people think this thing is so wretched.  The bright colors, and the cluttery appearance are not very different at all from many Victorian houses I've seen.  The flower boxes and flower pots look too fake to save.  But these are minor things that one can take off if you don't like them.    A little weathering to tone down the overall bright "clean-ness" (which you would do to any model), and it looks perfectly acceptable.

Maybe I'm reading this thread incorrectly, but I thought that it was not the realism of this building that was critiqued, but its "kit-bashability".  This thread has plenty of examples showing that these small Victorian building existed (and still do) in the 1:1 scale world.

[Chris333]

My first building showed up, the shoe cobbler. The box was sealed and the baggie inside was sealed. There was no front wall in the box at all. 

[Rich_S]

Apparently Rich, you missed my point entirely. Maybe I should have said, I disagree with the notion that model railroading is all about illusion and compromise. Then you might have spared us the lengthy explanation of what you thought I didn't understand. I disagree that model railroading is all about illusion and compromise but (I think I stated that) illusion and compromise are some of the realities we face in our task to recreate reality in miniature--however we go about it. Whether it's just running trains and not giving a hoot about the scenery or spending inordinate amounts of time detailing everything in sight--there is no right or wrong in your basement or garage (or office in my case). But as manufacturers, you have to realize (and I'm thinking that most of us on the forum agree) that we strive to be as accurate and believable as humanly possible with the products we expect you guys to buy from us. If some of us think that one of our fellow manufacturers is compromising too much, chances are we not going to keep quiet--after all isn't that what a forum is all about?

OK, you're going to split hairs over two words. One question for you, why don't your "N" scale vehicles have interiors? In your zest to recreate reality in miniature, I'd think this would be important. I'm done with this silly argument.

[Chris333]

Woodland Scenics is sending me a replacement wall.

[jimmo]

OK, you're going to split hairs over two words. One question for you, why don't your "N" scale vehicles have interiors? In your zest to recreate reality in miniature, I'd think this would be important. I'm done with this silly argument.

Ooh good one. They will eventually, zest takes time. For the moment, I'll have to compromise and use illusion to make them appear to have windows. That's what I'm all about.

[Chris333]

About these WS "kits". This is why you pretty much have to build them like the photo on the box: