Atlas code 55

[peteski]

I'm really surprised that with all the problems Paul mentioned with the production in China that nobody yet mentioned bringing the production back to the good ol' US of A.... 

[Kisatchie]

I'm really surprised that with all the problems Paul mentioned with the production in China that nobody yet mentioned bringing the production back to the good ol' US of A.... 

Hmm... I didn't want to
start any trouble...

[Scottl]

Rich raises a point I implied earlier about the opportunity cost to Atlas.  Several years without production represents a substantial loss of sales which cannot be good.  I would expect that tooling is not that expensive (but finicky to get correct, as indicated by Cory), and the issues in China would have created an opportunity to bring production closer to home.  I'm sure they considered this, but I suspect they are less geared up to produce state-side than we might assume.  Either that or the higher wages in North America make the economics completely out of the question.  I'd pay more for it, mind you, I would pay a lot for code 55 flex right now!  Still, I don't think another dollar a stick would be a deal breaker for many.

So while we have Atlas' attention to some extent, how about tooling up some concrete tie track for code 55?  While you are on the file anyway... 

[glakedylan]

I would be interested in knowing what the cost would be to produce and manufacture n scale track in regards to Atlas standards, for Atlas, as a way of trying to solve 2 issues at the same time: supply and demand for the products, and putting people to work in a way that provides a paycheck and the other benefits of employment.

I wish I have the ability and finances to offer Atlas their products (in track) in a way that does what is indicated above. one would think there would have to be a way to create an at home, here where people are unemployed or under employed, a means to that end.

not wanting to get into the politics of it all...just thinking there must be a solution that serves the common good of more people.

ok...I have stopped thinking now...brain hurts...

G

[Jim Costello]

Yes,many years ago I had the opportunity to visit Atlas in New Jersey and saw them actually drawing the wire into rail and producing set track for another company
and  producing their own code 100 flex. They had production staff making point motors as well.  It may be costly to do,but any problems are easily sorted out there on the spot and
not through phone/fax/emails or flights half way around the world.

I believe we will see companies going back to their own countries for production. I believe ConCor is one in the US and I have heard that Hornby is going back to the UK.

Jim 

[John]

I would be interested in knowing what the cost would be to produce and manufacture n scale track in regards to Atlas standards, for Atlas, as a way of trying to solve 2 issues at the same time: supply and demand for the products, and putting people to work in a way that provides a paycheck and the other benefits of employment.

well .. ME flex is made in the US .. what's the cost for a section of that?   Atlas making flex in the US would probably be about the same price point .. we should quit buying stuff from the china folks where it makes sense to insource ..

[Rossford Yard]

As to the opportunity Atlas lost without track, it was probably substantial.

The only hint of track sales numbers I ever saw was from Sam Posey's book, when he interviewed Walthers, back in about 2005.  IIRC, he said that Walthers sold 29 actual miles of HO flex track that year (150,000 feet or 60,000 pieces). I don't have the book in front of me, but that may have only been the code 100 Atlas, with more from the Code 83 and Code 70 premium lines.  If we presume N is a third of that, based on some ratios of sales mentioned by others in the biz, its still 10 miles worth of N scale track per year, or 53,000 feet, or 21,000 pieces per year. 

Not sure what O might sell. 

Still, at their mfg price to wholesalers, which is probably $2 per stick, they may have lost "only" $40K in N flex sales (and more in turnouts, snap, crossings, etc.) Not sure if there is an HO shortage of track, but sounds like there was a bit, so that would be a bigger number, maybe over $100K a year. 

As much as that sounds, I would bet that it isn't enough to set up a factory in the USA, and then pay 10X the labor, at least if my estimates are anywhere close.  Even if they are not (highly likely, Paul will probably read this in the Monday morning meeting next week and they will all convulse in laughter), I would still say, based on the decades long exodus of low value manufacturing from the US to other countries, that the numbers still wouldn't work, even in NV, a tax free state, with more incentives, minimum wage, etc. 

I mean, what's chances that thousands of US business executives know more about it than some modelers on the internet?

And yes, I am aware of a small countertrend to come back to the US, but my guess is they have done all that math, figured the pain quotient either way, and feel sticking with China through a rough patch is the least bad of all their options.  And I am aware that ME makes it here, probably with building, tooling, etc. all paid for long ago, which helps a lot over the cost of starting from scratch with a new factory.

Trust me, we feel their pain!

[reinhardtjh]

I would be interested in knowing what the cost would be to produce and manufacture n scale track in regards to Atlas standards, for Atlas, as a way of trying to solve 2 issues at the same time: supply and demand for the products, and putting people to work in a way that provides a paycheck and the other benefits of employment.

well .. ME flex is made in the US .. what's the cost for a section of that?   Atlas making flex in the US would probably be about the same price point .. we should quit buying stuff from the china folks where it makes sense to insource ..

As an indicator, you may want to keep track of the price of ME HO code 55 track.  There are discussions going on in the Yahoo Accu-Track group that ME's tie mold for HO track has been damaged (Sound familiar?), their mold cutter has left them for another employer and they are having difficulty finding a competent replacement.  They may drop HO code 55 track entirely.  If they do come up with a replacement the new price compared to past prices should give a good idea.  Of course, it may be a while before they do find a replacement.

Note: Their N scale line is fine - no danger there at the moment of a supply problem.  Also code 55 rail is not affected.  Just the HO tie strips needed for flex track.

[bbussey]

Yes,many years ago I had the opportunity to visit Atlas in New Jersey and saw them actually drawing the wire into rail and producing set track for another company
and  producing their own code 100 flex. They had production staff making point motors as well.  It may be costly to do,but any problems are easily sorted out there on the spot and
not through phone/fax/emails or flights half way around the world...

Aah ... those were the days, when Atlas had the massive track-making machines running in the basement of the Florence Avenue building 24/7.  Pretty freaking awesome and a sight to see.

[Dave V]

I built Enola Yard in 2009 and both my LHSs in Omaha at the time had all the Atlas code 55 I could ever need.  Turnouts, flex, you name it...  Both had it for less than MSRP, too.  So yeah, I call BS on the 6-year drought as well.

If I'da known the drought was coming, I'd have stocked up.

[unittrain]

At what point does hand laying turnouts become an option? That's my question at this point. If I had invested the dollars and time back last July to begin making my own, I might have most of my needs for turnouts filled by now. I'm still waiting unfortunately.

I gave up on waiting on flextrack though, and am using Micro Engineering, which looks just as good, if not better, than Atlas C55 flex.

There are other options on the market, and no one is holding any of us hostage to the supply problems that Atlas has experienced. I know they are doing their best to bring product back to the market, but even when items start hitting the shelves I still expect flex and turnouts to be in short supply because of pent up demand.

I only use ME I like the appearance more, but I guess from what is being said recently the new ME flex has off center ties I'll have to check the new bundle I bought a month ago.

[Dave Schneider]

Yes, this is true. In the overall view, the code 55 is among the lowest volume product we had (before the production problems) so it is going to get a lower priority on the production schedule. 

This is really depressing for a number of reasons. Have you guys considered the many years of pent up demand? Is seems likely that the code 55 is going to be cleaned out as soon as it arrives. There are many of us who have (mainly) waited patiently for years only to face having to compete with fellow modelers as well as speculators who will purchase large quantities for later resale at a premium when the next shortage occurs. Maybe I am being pessimistic, but I don't think so. I just hope you guys have taken this into consideration. If this goes the route of having to do pre-orders years in advance, I am out of here. Really. I really respect Atlas and the wonderful contributions that you have made to N scale, but I am approaching my limit (for what that is worth). No track=no railroad=no locomotives or cars.

Best wishes, Dave

[Chris333]

Wouldn't pent up demand go for every scale? A guy at work was just telling me he can't find C83 HO track. Just sayin'.

[robert3985]

Never is an awfully long time, Robert. Remember, there are no absolutes.

Okay..."almost" never   

[robert3985]

By all means, Bob, consider yourself slapped, though I am trying to understand how my post which said Atlas WASN'T the only game in town equates to "code 55" is not available.

I even stated I went to ME flex. I am happy with that decision, especially because it will not cause issues with any pizza cutter flanges I might overlook. The only concern I have with ME turnouts is that, as you say, they are a one size fits all solution.

Nor did I mention Fast Tracks in my post. Even without their tools, jigs, etc... there are some costs involved in beginning to make your own turnouts. Sure a decent soldering iron, proper solder, a few track jigs, and some copper clad tie material and turnout ties won't break the bank for most. The other cost is the investment of time to bring the skill set up to par so a quality product is the result. That will obviously vary by the natural skills of the individual modeler. Just because you found and consider it easy to roll your own doesn't mean doing so will be as smooth a sail for everyone.

Why they Youtube links won't work is evidently also currently beyond my skill set.   

EDIT: Change "https" to "http" and the YouTube links will work. --DKS

I was just blowing off steam from other posts.  I actually liked yours.  My alopogies for the misunderstanding and my lack of clarity.   

(EDIT) Actually, I enjoy this thread and I'm not bad-mouthing Atlas for their efforts to produce decent code 55 track.  I also understand the problems in dealing with ANY production schedules and particularly with overseas production having done the same for several products I designed in the past (Made in Italy however).

I also have sympathy for the modelers who are "stuck" waiting for Atlas code 55, but...I don't understand why they prefer it over ME 55 flex, especially when ME flex is readily available.

However, this whole thing about unavailability and production problems just blows right over my head and if I wasn't here on TRW and on TB, I'd have never known about it since I don't use Atlas products...instead choosing ME flex and rolling my own turnouts...all of 'em.

The dearth of Atlas 55 has had zero impact on my layout/module building.  I only wish the same for everybody else...and the constant writing about "no code 55 available" only perpetuates the spurious claim that Atlas is the only game in town.

I'm also still trying to figure out why Atlas decided to make their turnouts shortened between the point of the frog and the closure rail toes...making the effective diverging radius much smaller than an actual #5, #7 or #10 turnout would be if built to proper proportions.  I suspect it was to comply with sectional 55 track measurements and lengths which was a bad decision IMO no matter what the reason.  Ah well...really doesn't affect me.

On the other side of the coin, the new boxcars coming from Atlas are simply superb (with the exception of that hurky huge-o coupler) and I'm buying a lot of 'em for my transition era layout.  THANKS ATLAS!  I haven't bought a MTL car in a loooong time except for "wooden" cabooses to kitbash into UP CA-1's.  Better wake up MTL...

Bed time...TTYL