Yard layout

[crrcoal]

Hi folks,

I’m looking for some ideas, thoughts, suggestions and assistance in designing a layout. I would like to concentrate on 80’s to present era yard ops. Not huge classification yard with hump and all that but maybe a smaller yard where trains from the large yards come in and get broken down into locals also a crew change point for coal trains (my first love). Maybe even have a small engine service facility for the local engines and turnaround of the larger road power.
My inspiration is the CSX yard at Spartanburg SC and NS’s Abrams yard in KOP PA.

The problem is what I envision does not translate onto paper. There is a disconnect between brain and hand.

Below is a sketch of layout dimensions.  The 7’ shelf can go no wider than 18”. Curves tend to eat a TON of space so Im not sure the small staging plank on the left side would be doable if it takes away too much real estate from the long shelf. 

Is stub ended the best choice?
Would a double ended yard be feasible?

Appreciate any help you guys can offer! Thank you!

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I don't have any great advice at the moment, but mmmmm Abrams...

I take it you've seen this:

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And the photos from here:
http://thecrhs.org/OnLocationWithConrail/Philadelphia

That said, Arbams is a great prototype, except for that annoying thing where it's actually TWO yards (the "Heavy" and the "Seaboard" ones).

I'm doing something almost exactly the same in my basement at the moment, but with the added interest of some interchange trains showing up.

The one thing to keep in mind is that, in order to keep the layout interesting, you're gonna need a good amount of staging, which can be a real challenge.

[crrcoal]

Hi Ed, thank you for the reply! Abrams is very cool. Yes I have seen that great video! awesomness there.
I love making up and breaking down trains. Switching and yard ops are where it's at.
Staging is the tricky part. I can get maybe 3 or 4 tracks on the staging plank. That should suffice for an hour or so op session. Unfortunately that is all the space I have for a layout.


Here are a couple Spartanburg vids;

Coal

Local

  Various activity

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I'm facing a similar issue.

My current plan is to go with active staging: a pair of staging tracks that I can just swap trains in and out on from off layout when needed.

[Dave V]

I'm facing a similar issue.

My current plan is to go with active staging: a pair of staging tracks that I can just swap trains in and out on from off layout when needed.

...and to make a few trees every night.   

[Philip H]

...and to make a few trees every night.   

I think this is about to 1) become a new TRW Inside Joke (TM) and 2) need a good header image . . . .

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I hate you people... lol.

[Blazeman]

Ahh. Abrams. The good ole days when one could watch the show there. I work a mile from there and it might as well be in Moscow.

[DKS]

I think this is about to 1) become a new TRW Inside Joke (TM) and 2) need a good header image . . . .

It's actually already one of our oldest inside jokes, from the days Ed had the kidney in his apartment.

[conrail98]

Hi folks,

I’m looking for some ideas, thoughts, suggestions and assistance in designing a layout. I would like to concentrate on 80’s to present era yard ops. Not huge classification yard with hump and all that but maybe a smaller yard where trains from the large yards come in and get broken down into locals also a crew change point for coal trains (my first love). Maybe even have a small engine service facility for the local engines and turnaround of the larger road power.
My inspiration is the CSX yard at Spartanburg SC and NS’s Abrams yard in KOP PA.

The problem is what I envision does not translate onto paper. There is a disconnect between brain and hand.

Below is a sketch of layout dimensions.  The 7’ shelf can go no wider than 18”. Curves tend to eat a TON of space so Im not sure the small staging plank on the left side would be doable if it takes away too much real estate from the long shelf. 

Is stub ended the best choice?
Would a double ended yard be feasible?

Appreciate any help you guys can offer! Thank you!

I would go with a mix of both. Are you wanting to strictly do yard operations? Any industries on the edges of the yard to add some switching flavor?

Phil

[Bsklarski]

Need more info like how many cars you plan on having on the layout, length of trains, ect. Double ended is always better, I learned that lesson a while ago. All the yards except one on the railroad I work for are 4 - 6 tracks and double ended. Your gonna want that for set outs and pickups going in both directions.

[rsn48]

First beg, borrow or steal the Third edition of John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operations and read Chapter 5, Contemporary Railroading.  If you have the second edition and a friend has the third edition, ask him if you can borrow to copy chapter 5, its about the only real change in the last edition of the late Armstrong's repertoire.

I'm not sure what you are modelling but if its a class one railroad, you have longer stretches of mainline, bigger, longer, heavier trains pulled by less but more powerful units, ending at a yard or yards.  I won't tell you what to do but I'll tell you what I have done; I'm modelling contemporary.  Aside from what Lance Mindheim says, much of what is done on the modern line is multiple's of....  So in my train build, I might have a number of cars -  autoracks, grain cars, coal cars, intermodal, oil cars, sulphur cars, a number of box cars to the bulk transfer station (this is like team track except on steroids) - and cars for "other" which will go on my slough track (sloughing them off the mainline train).

So I will have a number of smaller, not longish yards to send the various similar units to; so grain cars to the large grain area, intermodal cars to that area, coal cars to.... etc. I took my inspiration from the Vancouver Wharves area though what I have looks nothing like it.  So in one Layout Design Element, I have a number of pics of an area at Vancouver Wharves that has a smaller intermodal yard loaded by a Piggy Packer (Wheels of Time makes a marvellous one) and right along side of it a Grain unloading location, not that large.

I will also have a very small yard for sulphur, coal, and other goodies.

This makes it easier also to switch as when I draw up a switching list, its only going to say grain cars to grainery, not listing the numbers which is a pain in N scale, so switching will be mostly self evident as coal cars to the coal area, autoracks to the auto area, etc.

I have a very long reversing loop and some of the yards are in this loop, the loop is double tracked so that the inside loop is arrival/departure easily handling two trains 10 feet long or longer.  When a train arrives it will be broken down by one guy, the other guy will be busy building trains, and the third guy running the trains on the main.

To make for more interest, for building trains you can have a list of compliance rules, and make sure to throw some "problem" cars into the consist (like ethanol cars) so that they have to be set out a certain way.

So for me, rather than build one large yard, I broke my areas down into much smaller shorter yards.

[crrcoal]

Great info from all of you. Many thanks!

Ok; Would love a double ended yard but am not sure its doable in my space? I look at Dave's Enola yard which is stub-ended. (Great yard BTW!) It sits on a 6.5 door. My long shelf only adds another 3' to that but the curve coming out of staging eats some of that up. Unless can curve onto the short shelf but would the curves be too tight? Six axle power is the rule so turnout minums should be at least #6 preferably bigger correct? But now space becomes factor again. Due to issue of space staging off the short shelf is an issue. Unless the yard can be designed where there is staging on the short shelf itself. Dunno if that is doable.

I'm looking at NS/CSX/Conrail. (Hmm CSAO?!  ). Don't want a huge class 1 yard thats why looking at smaller yards like Abrams and Spartanburg. I'd like to have coal trains come in, sit for a crew change maybe add power and then send on way. I'd also like mixed freights to come in, be broken down and made up into locals and send on the merry way and then vice-versa. Industry in or near the yard would add interest for sure. Elkhorn City comes to mind with several coal tipples right there in the yard which were worked by the yard crews. Abrams doesn't have any industry at the yard that I'm aware though. Maybe have a small car repair facility? Could move all kinds of cars in and out there.

I had been following Ed's post where he got his yard up and running and how excited he was when he was building trains. Thats what I wanna do basically.

Brian asked how many cars I want in they yard. All I can say is having a coal train or two and freights going in/out and cars being classified; would equal quite a few I suppose.

So thats what I am looking to do but do not know if it is doable in the space I have.

Thanks again for the assist, I really appreciate it!!

[Bsklarski]

You can do a stub ended yard, but try to make 2 of the tracks double ended. That way you can put pick ups on both ends and you can set out in either direction and switch it out easier and not have run around things.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

It's so funny how exactly you're describing what I'm working on downstairs.

I think it's going to be a stretch in your space, and you're going to have to make compromises, but you can probably replicate the feel of what you're looking for.

First off, forget the huge cliche space sucks of roundhouses and engine terminals. If you're not doing a major yard, your power will be shipped out when it needs real servicing. The most likely thing you'll need is a yard track that fuel trucks can occasionally get to. Even Altoona doesn't even really have an engine facility anymore! They just park engines on one of the yard tracks while it's not being used.

Then, think about staging. Where will that go? If I were you, I'd put one track on the shelf, and one across from it. Then employ active staging to swap stuff out as needed. If you can fit in two or three tracks, you should be golden.

Then, your actual classification tracks go in at the top there. Make the yard single ended, with the drill track to the right.

Wrap your yard in an EB and a WB main (for planning purposes, WB is to the left). Put in a "runner" that is like a passing siding off the WB main. That's your A/D track for westbound pickups and set offs. Eastbound traffic can get pulled right from the class bowl, and set outs can be made into the runner (if you can fit in enough switches to make that work) or into an empty track in the bowl.

Or, you can go single track main, wrap it around the back, and have more space up front.