First taste of MTL SW1500

[learmoia]

LOL!  You should have thought about this couple of years ago when TRW let bunch of  former A-board members on board. 

As Tom once said to a former A-Border...:  "Who ever said this was a family forum....?"

 
~Ian

[learmoia]

FWIW.. I think 2 photos (side view and top down view) of the MT SW1500 nose to nose with an Atlas MP-15 from about 1' away would be worth 1000 forum posts.

I estimate..
75% will realize all the fuss is over very hard to notice details..
25% will storm off in a huff and proclaim the model is crap..

(I'm guessing I'll be part of the 75%)

~Ian

[coosvalley]

I estimate..
75% will realize all the fuss is over very hard to notice details..
25% will storm off in a huff and proclaim the model is crap..

~Ian

I bet those numbers would have been different before the A-board migration......One of the reasons I joined this forum was the higher standard I seemed to get a sense of,..We have some really great model-makers here, some of the finest in N-scale...If good enough is OK with any of you, fine by me,,,,,but I WANT to know what to look for on a particular model, right or wrong. I WANT correct models, and go to some great lengths to get or make them...as do many others here.... ...if MT still wants to use a wonky ruler in this day and age, so be it.....I don't buy their older cars due to this, and probably won't pick up one of these either.....but that's my choice, based on what I'm looking for out of my "toy" trains....I certainly don't dislike MT, I think they've done great things for N scale....I just think every time we get a close-but-not-quite model, that means we won't get a correct one for a LONG time.....hood width in particular seems to still be an issue with some companies, much to my amazement..considering there is this other scale, called Z, which is even smaller...and uses smaller motors...

[peteski]

I bet those numbers would have been different before the A-board migration......One of the reasons I joined this forum was the higher standard I seemed to get a sense of,..

As an ex-A-board member I joined TRW after A-board was shot down.  I also think I'm a decent modeler.  So, if I say that this model is crappy, will it make you feel better? 

My honest opinion about this model is that by cutting corners, MT has not come up with a winner.  I see this in all the examples shown so far.  I'm not planning on buying this model (I have no need for it), but if I did, I wold probably be more vocal.

As far as the idealistic standards of perfection in the TRW go, I think that there is still plenty of griping taking place here about inaccuracies, or about inferior mechanical designs.  Just look through the message history.  And it is all fairly recent (after A-board migration).  So cheer up, the TRW standards are still quite high. 

[coosvalley]

As an ex-A-board member I joined TRW after A-board was shot down.  I also think I'm a decent modeler.  So, if I say that this model is crappy, will it make you feel better? 

Actually, yes, a little...

I don't mean that things have gone downhill around here, I think the A-board mixed in pretty well actually!!!..And I think those of us who are unimpressed with this model have been fairly well behaved!...I just want correct models, preferably off the shelf...but wishes are just that....

[CBQ Fan]

What I don't understand is that there was ton of bitching because there was no sw1500 offered.  MT decided to come out with one.  Yes there are some compromises.  Everything I have seen from MT is above board about these compromises.  So take it for what is is worth.  Buy it or don't.  I have a hard time believing that MT just half a$$ed it and gave their best guess and hoped it was close enough.  You have two schools of thought.  They mailed it in and have all kind of inaccuracies and are charging a premium and making a killing.  Or that they made the sacrifices needed to keep the price in line with where they need to be sell enough units to make the project worth while.  I highly doubt it is the prior.  I am looking at a yard stick across the room and thinking to myself, six inches really.......

[learmoia]

... Okay lets try this.. .
1: 25% will realize all the fuss is over very hard to notice details and be satisfied...
2: 50% will realize all the fuss is over very hard to notice details, B*tch about it.. but buy it anyways because it's the closest we've got..
3: 25% will storm off in a huff and proclaim the model is crap (and not buy it)..

(With that.. I'd say I'm in the 50%.. but I'd jump to the satisfied group if they come through with the promise of body mounted handrails and Flexcoil trucks..)
-- I'll bet SP modelers will do if they do the SP light package.

Truth is.. Many of us have Kato SD40s, SD45s, C30-7s, Atlas/Kato GP30s and GP35s (all too wide)..   You notice it.. but it doesn't keep you awake at night...

IMO.. at the end of the day, the MT SW1500 fills a LARGE Void, with a model that is much closer than previous attempts.  The idea that it's a large void being filled leads people to review the model with great scrutiny, hopeing that it's great model.. and critical on any issues.. (Same goes with the IM SD40-2).

I think they (MT) are doing the best they can with the resources they have (and the price point they are shooting for) on the execution of the physical model itself..   As far as the first paint scheme,  definitely some inexcusable corners cut.. 
On the bright side... Looks like the revised artwork on the UP scheme is pretty close..
-- Lets hope they keep that up for Conrail and BN..

--- And while we're on the subject of artwork.. the number font on the Reading unit in Bryan's picture looked a lot more like Penn Centrals number font than Reading's Number font....  So lets push for that adjustment...

As far as TRW vs Atlas... I'd hate to see this place moderated to the point of people being silenced/removed for a heated debate over a model.. and I don't want "Foobie" to be automatically changed to "Model with detail inaccuracies.. " or whatever the heck they did..

FoobieFoobieFoobieFoobieFoobieFoobieFoobieFoobieFoobieFoobieFoobieFoobieFoobie


~Ian

[peteski]

What I don't understand is that there was ton of bitching because there was no sw1500 offered.  MT decided to come out with one.  Yes there are some compromises.  Everything I have seen from MT is above board about these compromises.  So take it for what is is worth.  Buy it or don't.  I have a hard time believing that MT just half a$$ed it and gave their best guess and hoped it was close enough.  You have two schools of thought.  They mailed it in and have all kind of inaccuracies and are charging a premium and making a killing.  Or that they made the sacrifices needed to keep the price in line with where they need to be sell enough units to make the project worth while.  I highly doubt it is the prior.  I am looking at a yard stick across the room and thinking to myself, six inches really.......

Bitching will happen no matter how accurate the model is. This is how forums (full of excellent and nitpicky modelers) work.    Even if the model is 100% accurate for one road, another model will bitch that the version painted for his railroad is not 100% accurate.  But in this case more serious compromises have been made (not just the wide hood).  To me this indicates that MT has lowered their standard. After all, I thought that this was supposed to be a brand new model (not some professional "kit-bash" of parts from other models).  But as always, some modelers will be ecstatic, while others will be ticked off.  Then the collectors will buy their share. Especially if it is decorated for some special run made by NSC NSE.  I know, I'm a member. After all, it is made by MT. 

Putting other inaccuracies aside, I'm puzzled by the light board/decoder thing.  If the 3mm LED on the light board has to be bent up about 30 degrees to illuminate the headlight, how will the front-facing tiny LED on the Digitrax decoder illuminate the said headlight?  You can't bend the LED or the circuit board. 

HeY, but at least they are using brass worms!  Happy days are here again! 

[GaryHinshaw]

Fact-based criticism is more than welcome here; it always has been and always will be.  It's also fine to express your opinions about a model.  The thing that often poisons MTL threads here is the implicit or explicit lack of respect for other people's opinions, or the integrity of MTL's employees.  If you treat the other camps with respect while making your points, everything will be fine; if you don't, we shut it down.

[ljudice]

First of all, there is no manufacturer I have more respect for than MTL - if it wasn't for them, there probably wouldn't even be a serious N-scale today.

The SW1500 will be a fine runner and I am sure a good seller.  My only disappointment is that it's 90% to perfect - so why not go the rest of the way?

Probably because it's not deemed necessary to be a success.  A few idiots like me complaining about the trucks or the frame stripes is not going to change anything.  99% of prospective buyers have never heard of Railwire. 

In my view, this is all about a conversation regarding what is - and what could be - and nothing more.

 

[central.vermont]

Putting other inaccuracies aside, I'm puzzled by the light board/decoder thing.  If the 3mm LED on the light board has to be bent up about 30 degrees to illuminate the headlight, how will the front-facing tiny LED on the Digitrax decoder illuminate the said headlight?  You can't bend the LED or the circuit board. 

Pete, I was thinking the very same thing. 

Jon

[Denver Road Doug]

In my view, this is all about a conversation regarding what is - and what could be - and nothing more.

Well said.   I think if most folks had this mindset about these discussions there would be much less back seat moderating.   Like I always say...it's a discussion forum...   

[unittrain]

First of all, there is no manufacturer I have more respect for than MTL - if it wasn't for them, there probably wouldn't even be a serious N-scale today.

The SW1500 will be a fine runner and I am sure a good seller.  My only disappointment is that it's 90% to perfect - so why not go the rest of the way?

Probably because it's not deemed necessary to be a success.  A few idiots like me complaining about the trucks or the frame stripes is not going to change anything.  99% of prospective buyers have never heard of Railwire. 

In my view, this is all about a conversation regarding what is - and what could be - and nothing more.

Well Jimmy Page and Robert Plant may disagree with the ACCURACY of the last statement 

But seriously I like a lot of MTL's stuff except the compressed stuff! I will probably get some of these in B&O and Chessie.

[Rich_S]

What I truly would like to know is, what was the reason given for the pilot stripes not being correct? This is not a bash of MTL products, 80% of my rolling stock is MTL cars. In my opinion MTL always raises the bar when it comes to the printing on their rolling stock. That is why I was shocked to see the pilot striping incorrect on the NS locomotives, when I've seen the correct striping applied to other manufacture locomotives.

AAR switcher trucks will work just find for me, I'm just wondering if MTL will be selling undecorated SW1500?

Unless they are planing a few of the following:

   



If that is the case, then I'll just put my airbrush and decals away now 

[Kisatchie]

The SW1500 will be a fine runner and I am sure a good seller.  My only disappointment is that it's 90% to perfect - so why not go the rest of the way?

I'm betting it's cost. Joe from Micro-Trains already said the pilot stripes couldn't be made thinner due to technical reasons - no way to hold the SMALL pilot while it's pad printed, as I recall. (I did a search and couldn't find the original comment)

And adding a light to the cab? How much extra engineering and labor would be required? Lots, I'm guessing.

As for the hood being 6 scale inches too wide... is that so an N scale motor could fit? I really wouldn't want an N scale model to have a Z scale motor in it. I'm thinking, very little pulling power. What if the z scale motor could haul only 2 or 3 cars? Riots in the streets!


Hmm... I'd better bring
some popcorn then...