First taste of MTL SW1500

[tehachapifan]

Excellent points! I consider myself to be somewhat of an SW1500 expert but only fairly recently noticed some came with 5 step stepwells as opposed to the normal 4. This sort of thing could easily go unnoticed by a manufacturer unless someone points it out.

[ljudice]

I think Joe says right in his post "modifed chassis is in house", which implies to me that it is not the same as the one on the model in the photo.

[Sokramiketes]

I think Joe says right in his post "modifed chassis is in house", which implies to me that it is not the same as the one on the model in the photo.

 

"...modified chassis are in house..."

And if the shell fits on an unmodified chassis, according to everything Tehachapifan has told us, then the shell would have to be really wide.  That's even more scary than it being on the modified chassis in the photo posted.

[tehachapifan]

"...modified chassis are in house..."

And if the shell fits on an unmodified chassis, according to everything Tehachapifan has told us, then the shell would have to be really wide.  That's even more scary than it being on the modified chassis in the photo posted.

I'm convinced by the photo that the shell shown is not wide enough to fit over an un-modified LL chassis. The walkways and the outer cab windows would be really, really narrow if it was that wide. Everything looks correct for an SW1500 to me...even though the angle shown is really not the best to determine hood width.

[Denver Road Doug]

Except for rule number 4 of the "Guide to making model trains"... which clearly states "Ask 3 modellers what ________ is correct and get 23 answers, all of which are likely wrong....

Yeah, I wasn't really thinking about the "that's not the color I remember" type of critiques.  I'm talking about the stuff Kato has rolled out that NOBODY thinks was the color they remember...except for that one night with the bad mushrooms.  (SD45's come to mind)

Look, I think we all get it that most models will have compromises, and some that are significant, and some that are bone-headed.   It's one thing to have a compromise based on "there are a dozen phases and we can't make them all".  But stuff like the incorrect housing on the tunnel motor, missing sight glass on a -2....those are pretty "out there" for a company that is supposed to understand their product.   The wide hood falls there....if that's the case then we've really got another Con-Cor MP15, and the market is still open to someone to do them "better"....plain and simple.  (I've said from the first hint of an MTL SW1500 that this will be the case anyway...simply due to release frequency)  And "it is what it is" at this point...that ship has sailed.   Fortunately, this is one loco that can support multiple manufacturers in the market, I believe. (along with the GP38-2 and SD40-2, and perhaps a few others)

I suspect than when Joe posts something like this he is expecting neither "Ooh Joe that's awesome...YOU'RE awesome....can I have your autograph?" nor "oh GOOD GAWD what were you thinking!?!?".   Anything in between those is probably valuable to the effort.   

[wazzou]

I would think that it would be pretty easy, if it weren't already accounted for  , the space above the trucks to the bottom of the sill/shell. 
The tooling would just need to be cut deeper in that sill/shell area to provide the height necessary.

[Puddington]

I suspect than when Joe posts something like this he is expecting neither "Ooh Joe that's awesome...YOU'RE awesome....can I have your autograph?" nor "oh GOOD GAWD what were you thinking!?!?".   Anything in between those is probably valuable to the effort.   

No doubt about that. I was referring in general to the comment that a number of people have made over the years that goes something like " if they'd only have asked me I could have told them that XXXX was the right yyyyy".... Not to be outdone, person two gives you exactly the opposite answer two minutes later and both are absolutely convinced that they are right.... 

By way of example; we recently were working on locating a railway logo on a upcoming product... where do we put their logo.... you get the actual company painting document; compare it with a photo.... great...um... except, what about this photo....? Oh, um... Hey; then there is this photo......oh...um.. HMMM.... Hey expert 1 says that we should use that photo - it's the right one... But expert two says only if you were in "Nowehereville NB" because that shop never got the company painting diagram... use THIS photo..... except that this photo shows the logo 12" higher.... Let's ask the SIG.... what's that; they have seven possible answers.............

More often than not the "right answer" isn't clear; because there may not be ONE right answer.....I firmly believe that more often than not there isn't one standard for many things in railroading (Ok; some dimensional stuff, physical measurements may be consistent but little else seems to be - light position, location of door handles, gaskets, stack heights... we've seen wild and wide variations with no explainations.... its like when the L&N SIG had two former L&N paint shop employee speak to them and try and help solve the debate about what was L&N blue... they had photo's,  paint chips, formulas, paint company documents and after the two old boys looked at it all they said "L&N blue was whatever me and Harry could buy at the paint store in town and mix with whatever we had left in the paint drum....."

Who said this isn't a fun industry to work in ?

[Sokramiketes]

No doubt about that. I was referring in general to the comment that a number of people have made over the years that goes something like " if they'd only have asked me I could have told them that XXXX was the right yyyyy".... Not to be outdone, person two gives you exactly the opposite answer two minutes later and both are absolutely convinced that they are right.... 

By way of example; we recently were working on locating a railway logo on a upcoming product... where do we put their logo.... you get the actual company painting document; compare it with a photo.... great...um... except, what about this photo....? Oh, um... Hey; then there is this photo......oh...um.. HMMM.... Hey expert 1 says that we should use that photo - it's the right one... But expert two says only if you were in "Nowehereville NB" because that shop never got the company painting diagram... use THIS photo..... except that this photo shows the logo 12" higher.... Let's ask the SIG.... what's that; they have seven possible answers.............

More often than not the "right answer" isn't clear; because there may not be ONE right answer.....I firmly believe that more often than not there isn't one standard for many things in railroading (Ok; some dimensional stuff, physical measurements may be consistent but little else seems to be - light position, location of door handles, gaskets, stack heights... we've seen wild and wide variations with no explainations.... its like when the L&N SIG had two former L&N paint shop employee speak to them and try and help solve the debate about what was L&N blue... they had photo's,  paint chips, formulas, paint company documents and after the two old boys looked at it all they said "L&N blue was whatever me and Harry could buy at the paint store in town and mix with whatever we had left in the paint drum....."

Who said this isn't a fun industry to work in ?

I'm not going to deny anything you're saying Mike, but there is no minute detail or paint color conversation in this thread.  It is strictly dealing with the physical dimensions of an SW1500, which are a pretty concrete thing. 

Later when we start debating paint schemes, lettering fonts, and all that good stuff, you can bring up these "there's no right answer" debates again!

[ljudice]

Now I'm confused.

Should I be happy or concerned.

[tehachapifan]

I've seen nothing yet that's a cause for concern for me at all. Can't wait!

Also, in re-reading this thread, I noticed that it was stated that the SP versions WILL include SP light packages! Whereas, I thought it was stated previously that they would have the numberboards and flexicoils but not light packages. This is great news!

[wazzou]

Now I'm confused.

Should I be happy or concerned.

               ???

[BOK]

Yes, Jason Progressive Rail did have a locomotive equipped with Nathan air chime whistle which sounded similar to a steam locomotive. The locomotive was #2347 ex NS/K&IT and first used my me as engineer on PGR's "Dan Patch" (former MN&S High Line) in Bloomington, MN beginning in 2000. Originally painted in an unusual scheme of teal, with mauve (pink?) lettering and aqua handrails it was later re-numbered to #34 and re-painted to the former MN&S, blue/red colors as more locomotives were added to the fleet.
The air whistle was pretty soft and couldn't be depended upon to alert traffic at grade crossings so another "regular" and louder whistle/horn was added for that purpose. About the only time we used the nathan was if a railfan was filming us at work or on the engine/caboose Santa Train at Christmas time.
Attached are a couple of pictures showing me as engineer and other PGR guys along side the locomotive, former MN&S caboose #102 and the first delivery of CAT equipment to Ziegler Cat in over 20 years.
BTW the caboose was also unique as it was our "yard office" with a roof top, solar, panel providing electricity to charge batteries to power a portable, wireless fax machine and lites. It also had an Amtrak type whistle under the body for crossing protection when making shoves, headlights and markers on both ends and an interior oil, heater for refuge during those cold Minnesota, Winter mornings while waiting for the 2347 to warm up.
Outside of a pallet of extra brake shoes, a few spare air hoses, a knuckle or two , some switch brooms, shovels and pry bars that's all we had to run this nine mile line. There was no "office building" (that was at the head quarters in an industrial park 15 miles away) only parking for a couple of vehicles where we tied up and the caboose was spotted on a spur. Fuel was delivered once a week on Fridays by truck and locomotive tests/maint./repairs performed on site by contractors. The only additional "facility" was a fenced in "pen" on the lead into Ziegler which just barely held the engine and caboose and which allowed during cold weather the ability to plug the locomotive heater/pumps to prevent the block from freezing while shut down.
There you have it a complete short line facility in about 90 feet. In addition to the Zielgler pix I' ll also include one of the 34 and another unit after re-painting.

Barry

[Dave V]

No doubt about that. I was referring in general to the comment that a number of people have made over the years that goes something like " if they'd only have asked me I could have told them that XXXX was the right yyyyy".... Not to be outdone, person two gives you exactly the opposite answer two minutes later and both are absolutely convinced that they are right.... 

By way of example; we recently were working on locating a railway logo on a upcoming product... where do we put their logo.... you get the actual company painting document; compare it with a photo.... great...um... except, what about this photo....? Oh, um... Hey; then there is this photo......oh...um.. HMMM.... Hey expert 1 says that we should use that photo - it's the right one... But expert two says only if you were in "Nowehereville NB" because that shop never got the company painting diagram... use THIS photo..... except that this photo shows the logo 12" higher.... Let's ask the SIG.... what's that; they have seven possible answers.............

More often than not the "right answer" isn't clear; because there may not be ONE right answer.....I firmly believe that more often than not there isn't one standard for many things in railroading (Ok; some dimensional stuff, physical measurements may be consistent but little else seems to be - light position, location of door handles, gaskets, stack heights... we've seen wild and wide variations with no explainations.... its like when the L&N SIG had two former L&N paint shop employee speak to them and try and help solve the debate about what was L&N blue... they had photo's,  paint chips, formulas, paint company documents and after the two old boys looked at it all they said "L&N blue was whatever me and Harry could buy at the paint store in town and mix with whatever we had left in the paint drum....."

Who said this isn't a fun industry to work in ?

Pud,

I can make sure Rapido never has to worry about that again; I'll tell you exactly where the keystone needs to go on all your future releases!   

[johnh35]

I am unsure where some got the idea that people were bashing this release. A photo was shown, and questions were asked. The only part I am not clear on is why there has been no response to the questions.

When this project was first announced, DCC was not a certainty. Now we have clarity on that issue. Would the effort have been made to make it DCC ready if people did not proffer an opinion.  Now there are additional questions/concerns about the hood width and ride height. The hood width question should be easy to answer since the shell is tooled.

I remember people bashing the Bachman Alco S-4 over a perceived wide hood (which turned out to be within a couple of scale inches IIRC) but MT publishes a picture and gets a pass?

[Ian MacMillan]

Everyone get this straight

Critique = Pointing out errors or omissions that have merit.
Bashing = Just plain BS that is based on opinion alone and not merit.


I like turtles.