Detailing Parts for N-scale locos (including handrails)

[amato1969]

Nice tip!  This could be much more useful than CA for applying etched parts - especially those that need a little time to position correctly.

  Frank

[ednadolski]

Oh, and don't forget the handrails! 

I hear that henceforth, we won't need wire handrails because GE & EMD are going to build locos with 6" diameter PVC pipe for handrails.....   

Micro Bond with Micro Prep

Is that the same as Cyanopoxy?

Holy smokes Ed, you need to be committed  I draw the line at custom handrails 

Handrails are fun, but I'm really after those rotating roller bearing caps in N-scale....   

Did you make those pilot ends? They are gorgeous! (along with just about every other detail part for this I see)

Thanks for the kind words!  The pilots arose out of necessity, really:  when I tried installing the etched pockets for the LE couplers, there was a big gap all around them, for accommodating the standard couplers.  Then I realized how much work it would take to shave off the cast-on details, locate holes for the new detail parts, etc.  So an etched pilot seemed like a natural solution.

These pilots are part of a fret that I made up for experimental detail parts:


IMG_1276.jpg

This project is basically a learning experience, I've already got some changes and additions in the works for version 2.   Stay tuned.... 

Ed

[Sokramiketes]

The HO guys that do large overlays, like etched tread plate, thin down Barge Cement with MEK and apply it to the etchings.  Then they position the part and flow in additional MEK to reactivate the adhesive and permanently attach the parts.  I've also been using the method on Z scale autorack ladders, as it allows a precise application of adhesive, with a slightly flexible bond that etched parts need so they don't bow (roofwalks, grills, etc.) or pop off at the slightest shear force like with CA. 

Barge Cement is a thick, globby contact cement out of the tube.  But thinned down it is really easy to apply with a brush.

[ednadolski]

Here is where this is at after some time in the paint shop.   I used the Badger ATSF silver for this.   It's a bear to paint, since it separates very quickly.   This took a couple of layers to build up, atop of a gray primer.


IMG_1332.jpg


I'm pretty pleased with the depth of the new air reservoirs.  This is another one of those cases where the pic doesn't really live up to the in-person look.


Next up is some decaling.  I want to get that done before I start attaching the handrails.   Microscale 60-1008 looks like the right set.   Seems Microscale might have discontinued this set, but luckily I was able to find what I needed on ebay.


Ed

[Philip H]

As noted here, it appears you have a tad bit of red overspray that essentially contributes to your weathering . . .

[ednadolski]

As noted here, it appears you have a tad bit of red overspray that essentially contributes to your weathering . . .

Actually those parts were painted separately, that red is a reflection that the camera picked up from the walkways.  Sorry my pics aren't too good, but this shows it a little more clearly:


IMG_1325.jpg


Ed

[SSW7771]

This is looking awesome!

[tappertrainman]

Drifting the thread a little bit.

I came into the possession of an older Kato SD40 in ATSF colors, but the model has black handrails.  Is there any commercially (or internetally) available replacement part for these in the correct yellow paint?  I'm not necessarily trying to get super-fine wire detail, just something in the appropriate color.  Any suggestions from the crowd?  Am I stuck with trying to paint them?

James

[Catt]

Have you checked with KATO yet? They may have them in stock.If you can't find them on the site try calling and asking for the parts department.(just don't call at lunch time they get a wee bit testy if you interupt their meal  )

[jagged ben]

Drifting the thread a little bit.

I came into the possession of an older Kato SD40 in ATSF colors, but the model has black handrails.  Is there any commercially (or internetally) available replacement part for these in the correct yellow paint?  I'm not necessarily trying to get super-fine wire detail, just something in the appropriate color.  Any suggestions from the crowd?  Am I stuck with trying to paint them?

James

Showing as available at katousa.com.   Part 922046.

[Seligman Sub]

Looks like this project is undergoing a bit of "feature creep":  I've decided to upgrade the factory fuel tank and air reservoirs.  Since Kato makes these all as a single plastic casting, they have always had an undesirable "flattened' look as compared to the prototype.  While Kato's current models are a significant improvement over the original production units, they still leave a lot to be desired in this area.   So my approach is to cut away the molded-in factory parts, build out the recessed area with styrene, and then add a pair of scratch-built air reservoirs.  I've also replaced the fuel fillers with some scratchbuilt parts that are a closer approximation of the proto....


One challenge was, how to cement the styrene parts to the main tank, which is made of a different ABS plastic that is fairly resistant to most styrene solvents.  The usual liquid cements (e.g, Testors, which contains MEK, and Micro Mark's "Same Stuff" which is equivalent to the Tenax and Plastruct cements) barely touched the Kato plastic and made for a very weak joint.   I tried softening the ABS with acetone, which was somewhat better but still ended up breaking when I tried to file the parts to an even fit.  I ended up re-gluing the parts with CA,  which is OK but still possible to break the joints without a lot of effort.   One thing I may try in future efforts like this is the "Plastic Weld" by Plastruct, which supposedly works with dis-similar plastics, but I did not have any on hand for this project.

You can see in the pics that the increase in the recessed area means that the factory frame has to be milled down so that the tank can fit.  I've removed some of the material with a Dremel milling bit, but it was slow work.  I'll do the rest of the removal on the belt grinder.

Scratchbuilding the air tanks from styrene started with some 1/8" diameter solid rod.   This is slightly undersized but not too bad.   To form the rounded ends I used my "poor man's lathe" of a Dremel held in a bench vice.  The rod had to be chucked in very gently to avoid damaging the rod.  With the rod spinning I formed the rounded ends by cutting with the edge of a hand-held router bit.  The results are not perfect, but you have to look under magnification for it to be bothersome.

The straps around the air tanks are 0.006" brass wire, wrapped around and tightened gently by twisting together on the back side.  I notched the tanks on the back side, to create a recess for the twisted portion of the wire.  The tank supports were made from .015" styrene sheet by drilling a 1/8" hole and then trimming the styrene down to the needed shape.  It's hard to see in the pics, but one of the supports is a bit shorter than the others, because the air tanks when installed will have a slight pitch toward the center, rather than being parallel with the lines of the fuel tank.

I expect that painting the ABS plastic will be a challenge.  I'm planning to use an adhesion promoter for plastics to help the paint to stick.   I've done this on some other models, and it has held up fairly well so far.

Thanks for looking!

Ed

Your fuel tank mod is a big improvement. I've always been annoyed by the OEM detail.  The "new" tank design from Kato and now FVM is a big improvement but still not quite right.  I don't get why they aren't willing to shave the ounce or two of metal to get a prototypical tank in there?  I wonder if a proper tank design like yours could be done via 3D printing?

Keep it up!

[GaryHinshaw]

You almost done with this Ed?  I'm getting antsy to see the finished product.   

Actually, I took a break from track-laying and ballasting (and teaching...) this weekend to disassemble a GEVO and think about hand rails again, and I concluded that an approach like this -- with a one-part sill layer -- was the only practical way to go.  I'd love to see a close-up of the bit where the stanchion meets the sill in your etching.  Have you actually attached the assembly to the model yet?  Do you have a sense of its strength?  Inquiring minds want to know. 

[ednadolski]

Hi Gary, thanks for the prod, I need to get this project back on track (almost literally!)

The model has gone back into the paint shop.  I decided that I did not care for the Badger paint after all so I stripped it again.  The TCP Aluminum seems like a good color, but I tried to get away with painting it straight onto the plastic without a primer.  That was a major mistake:  the paint lifted off when I tried masking it for the red color.     So back into the alcohol bath yet again.... I've lost count how many times I've stripped this thing  .   Now it is awaiting a primer coat, but I am having some woes with the blower on my spray booth - seems the motor is overheating and shuts itself off in the middle of a painting session.     I hope Santa has room on his sleigh for this kind of Christmas present:  http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-PSC-Blower-12G810?functionCode=P2IDP2PCP

I have been making progress in some other areas.  I came up with an electrical contact strip to fit the side of the model where I ground down the frame for the revised fuel tank.  I've got the revised version of the GE pilots and they are looking good.  I've also started working on another Dash9 project like this one, it will be BNSF 4477 in H2 colors.  I'm making progress on the etching drawing for the ES44AC and ES44DC handrails (both Kato and FVM).   And finally, I have another etching project in the works that is nearly ready.  I think you will like it, but it would be too early to give further details here (heh heh  ).  I'll start a separate thread on that soon.

Ed

[peteski]

I have been using AccuPaint for over 20 years and most of my custom painted models had no primer coat. Especially the ones where silver is the base color (because silver is so opaque).  On those solver (Amtrak) models I also pa9inted the stripes, so there was a lot of masking and tape peeling.  I did not see a problem with paint coming off the bare plastic. This paint uses acetone as one of the solvents - that will "bite" really well into styrene. I put AcuPaint on using wet coats.

I assume that TCP is very similar. You should have no adhesion problems over bare styrene or ABS shells.  I suspect that you are spraying the paint on too dry. If it partially dries before hitting the model, it will not adhere very well.

[ednadolski]

I suspect that you are spraying the paint on too dry. If it partially dries before hitting the model, it will not adhere very well.

You could be right on about that.  I am still learning how to work with this paint.  What pressure do you use?  I have been using 32 PSI, when I was using 20-25 I was having issues with the paint going on grainy.  At 32 PSI, it goes on in a hurry, so quick strokes are needed.  I wonder too if I may be over-thinning, as I have been adding a few drops of the TCP thinner to about 1/2 of a color cup worth of paint.   Time for me to try out some variations.

I do like that this paint can be cleaned up with 91% alcohol rather than working with acetone or lacquer thinner.

Ed