Oregon Joint Line N Scale

[tappertrainman]

Likewise, I'm always a little star struck by the huge layouts. I guess I figure if you're in that much then you must have a good handle on things! 

[JSL]

Great plan! Thanks for all the work putting that together!

[coldriver]

I'm full of envy, it looks pretty good to me.  Big layouts like that tend to get a muted response, as they are hard to digest.  Micro layouts and HCD tend to be simple enough to get a feel of things pretty quickly.

For me, it is hare to really get a feel for a layout without knowing the topography, but I tend to be more interested in the scenery.

Ahh, points well taken!  Weird thing is that it's sometimes tough for me to digest smaller trackplans, because I've never considered building a small layout, rarely look at smaller trackplans, and certainly don't feel qualified to provide meaningful feedback on one.  Not to say that I don't admire them, some of the small layouts I've seen on here have turned out amazing!   

The first thing I do when I get my monthly copy of Model Railroader is to skim the pages looking for large trackplans - so that shows you where my head is at... 

[Philip H]

I've never built a big layout - probably never will even if I acquire the space. That said I've operated and helped construct several. So, fwiw;

You seem to have two big yards adjacent to each other. Why?
Both yards have industries on their tales that look shoe horned in. Why?
What is the purpose of the curved yard coming off Emirgant heading past Hines lumber?
Could you move that closer to the basalt ballast pit for more room?

[coldriver]

I've never built a big layout - probably never will even if I acquire the space. That said I've operated and helped construct several. So, fwiw;

You seem to have two big yards adjacent to each other. Why?
Both yards have industries on their tales that look shoe horned in. Why?
What is the purpose of the curved yard coming off Emirgant heading past Hines lumber?
Could you move that closer to the basalt ballast pit for more room?

Thanks Phillip, excellent questions.
One of my main goals for this layout is to replicate the experiences I had as a yardmaster in Seattle in the 90's, so naturally my layout is a bit heavy on yard activity.  A lot of interaction goes on behind the scenes and on a typical night working Stacy Yard south of downtown I would need to work out all sorts of operating issues with my counterparts at Interbay, South Seattle, Tacoma, and UP's Argo Yard, not to mention the Seattle Terminal Dispatcher.  That was one of my favorite things about working the prototype, but it's seldom seen in the modeling world - in fact it's often seems to be outright discouraged.  So on the Oregon Joint Line you have three yardmaster/switcher positions from three different railroads (NP, GN, and O&NE) in the greater Monument terminal all of which need to work together to keep the railroad fluid.  The Oregon Joint Line is loosely patterned after the Oregon Trunk and Monument is meant to be the OJL's version of Klamath Falls, Oregon (see Gary's Hinshaw's thoughtful analysis where he essentially describes my layout concept even before he'd ever even heard of it (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=29551.0)!   

Also from my Seattle experiences are the "shoehorned" industrial areas - modeler's are typically "local happy" but there is also a large amount of industrial switching performed by yard engines in terminals.  Before I became a yardmaster I loved to work those jobs as a switchman roaming the industrial areas of Seattle overnight.  So the shoehorned areas are my attempt to replicate that activity.  It's only natural that industries would want to locate as close as possible to major yards - there's no doubt you'll receive better service than locating 50 miles out of town along the mainline. 

Here's a couple pictures of the "yard" at Emigrant - as you can see it's not a yard at all, you have the mainline, the meet/pass siding, the lumber mill empty storage track, and the log track (and the lumber and chip tracks beyond).  Industries this large almost always have associated storage tracks and while it's hard to find the space for that type of thing on a small layout, I feel like it's a requirement on a large layout. 

[basementcalling]

Thanks Phillip, excellent questions.
One of my main goals for this layout is to replicate the experiences I had as a yardmaster in Seattle in the 90's, so naturally my layout is a bit heavy on yard activity.  A lot of interaction goes on behind the scenes and on a typical night working Stacy Yard south of downtown I would need to work out all sorts of operating issues with my counterparts at Interbay, South Seattle, Tacoma, and UP's Argo Yard, not to mention the Seattle Terminal Dispatcher.  That was one of my favorite things about working the prototype, but it's seldom seen in the modeling world - in fact it's often seems to be outright discouraged.  So on the Oregon Joint Line you have three yardmaster/switcher positions from three different railroads (NP, GN, and O&NE) in the greater Monument terminal all of which need to work together to keep the railroad fluid.  The Oregon Joint Line is loosely patterned after the Oregon Trunk and Monument is meant to be the OJL's version of Klamath Falls, Oregon (see Gary's Hinshaw's thoughtful analysis where he essentially describes my layout concept even before he'd ever even heard of it (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=29551.0)!   

Gary is pretty smart.

Nice to hear that your layout operates as good as it looks.

I'm with you on needing storage tracks near the major industries. My paper mill will have a dedicated yard just for that, otherwise the flow of materials would be sporadic.

I'm still trying to totally locate your towns on a map of Oregon based on that one reference to the South Fork of the John Day on the track plan. Do you have a map that places the joint line in context?

[Philip H]

Having lived in and rail fanned Seattle 2002-2006 I know those yards and their tracks well. Nice to connect this layout to that set prototypes. That said as you know there's way more distance between say Interbay and South Seattle then you have there. And Interbay has now spread down past the grain elevator almost to Belltown. So while I can see why from a room stand point you have two yards that closely connected, even your prototypes were farther apart.

[Baronjutter]

That's a really cool scene!  Everything on this layout is top notch. The trees on the hill look a bit sparse or too perfectly spaced though, maybe add a few more here and there?  Great blending with the background too.

[coldriver]

I'm still trying to totally locate your towns on a map of Oregon based on that one reference to the South Fork of the John Day on the track plan. Do you have a map that places the joint line in context?

Here's a flyer I put together as an invite to my first op sessions back in 2012 that shows a map.  I've taken a little liberty with the names - the area is so sparsely populated that there really isn't much to choose from.  If you really want to follow the route (yep, I plotted the grades on topo maps) look for Picture Gorge down through Dayville and Izee (almost modeled), over the divide between the South Fork of the John Day River to Yellowjacket Creek (just north of Yellowjacket Lake) to Emigrant Creek to the Silvies River.  And if you're really bored Google has a street view (for unknown reasons) of Forest Service Road 68 which parallels most of the route.  The funny thing is that you go for miles and miles on the street view without ever meeting another car - that's what I love about the area!

 

[coldriver]

Having lived in and rail fanned Seattle 2002-2006 I know those yards and their tracks well. Nice to connect this layout to that set prototypes. That said as you know there's way more distance between say Interbay and South Seattle then you have there. And Interbay has now spread down past the grain elevator almost to Belltown. So while I can see why from a room stand point you have two yards that closely connected, even your prototypes were farther apart.

Our most frequent contact was with UP Argo, which of course is quite close to Stacy and was the most interesting (and often contentious) interaction.   Obviously central Oregon and downtown Seattle have little in common, but I'm trying to replicate the roles rather than the locations. 

[coldriver]

The trees on the hill look a bit sparse or too perfectly spaced though, maybe add a few more here and there? 

Now that you mention it you're quite right - those trees are lined up in rows like a Christmas tree farm!  Noted...

[Philip H]

Our most frequent contact was with UP Argo, which of course is quite close to Stacy and was the most interesting (and often contentious) interaction.   Obviously central Oregon and downtown Seattle have little in common, but I'm trying to replicate the roles rather than the locations.

I worked at USACE down in SODO on East Marginal and I heard some of those contentions from our parking lot!

[GaryHinshaw]

Here's a flyer I put together as an invite to my first op sessions back in 2012 that shows a map.

Excellent.  This schematic, combined with your track plan puts everything together for me now.  Great concept   Now I'd be very curious to see how many, and what type, of jobs you have for your operators during a typical session, especially among the two central yards.  One question: do your north and south staging yards connect with each other on the lower level?

Feel free to post more photos, especially ones that are keyed to the track plan. 

Cheers,
Gary

[Rossford Yard]

All I can tell you is that the op scheme is one of the best I have seen.  I have run Monument Yard twice and he provides a "playbook" telling you what trains are coming, what to do with them.  Not a lot of cherry picking switching, as per prototype.  And, from time to time you look up and ask "Hey, where it train 357?" only to find out it has been delayed for some reason, so you go on to whatever other task you can do while waiting.  Also fun is walking around the corner to the Dayville operator and asking "you ready for my cut yet?"  There are radios, and some jobs need them, but its also informal enough which is good, too.

Its non stop action, but at the same time, not the pressure some yardmasters get on big layouts (might have as much to do with host's personality as the op scheme, but both contribute)  Dean describes it as a result of a flexible schedule, where he may only release trains sequentially.  If a particular yard is jammed up, he may just hold the train an extra scale half hour.

[coldriver]

Here's a more legible version of the track plan (I'm still learning about such things...)