Tortoise and Peco turnouts

[rsn48]

Do I need to disable the spring in a Peco turnout that will be thrown by a tortoise?  If so, how do I do that?

I will be using the turnout in an auto-reversing, auto-throw (Hare) scenario.

[peteski]

My friend has dozens of Peco switches controlled by Tortoises. He left the springs in and they work just fine.  He did have to replace the wire that comes with the switch machine to a heavier wire, to provide enough force to overcome the spring pressure.

The layout has been operating like that for over 15 years.  He did have couple of throwbars break, but I'm not sure that was due to the way they are thrown or simply due to a defect/weakness in the plastic itself.

[rsn48]

The first turnout I'm doing requires a particularly long throw so I already bought heavier wire and a tube for it to go through, not sure why you need the tube but my electronics geeky friend told me to do it that way, and I never argue with a geek (most of the time).

[nkalanaga]

Peteski:  I would think that it was defective throwbars, unless the Tortoise is applying a lot more force than needed.  The Peco twin-coil machines throw with quite a snap and don't break the throwbars.

[peteski]

Peteski:  I would think that it was defective throwbars, unless the Tortoise is applying a lot more force than needed.  The Peco twin-coil machines throw with quite a snap and don't break the throwbars.

I agree, but I mentioned that for a full disclosure.
My friend is very fastidious. The Tortoise wires (the amount of throw and centering) were carefully aligned to apply just enough force to throw the switch, plus a smidgen more. 

[Jeff AKA St0rm]

I have used Peco with Tortoies and depending on the depth of road bed some time taking the spring out is needed. If you only have plywood then you will be fine, but if you are going through 2" of foam then taking out the spring might be needed. Try and see if it works if it doesn't you can take the spring out with the switch installed.

[rsn48]

And how do you take the spring out?

[Jeff AKA St0rm]

An old #11 blade will work. Just a little presser and it will pop out. It is only force fit.

Just went to look at one. on the throw bar the spring is just press fit from the bottom. If you push that part of the spring down it will pop out. have a look at one upside down and you will see what I mean. once that is loose the other part can be taken out with tweezers.

Hope this helps

[rsn48]

Thanks, I'll check it out.  I was looking at an insulfrog turnout and it was solid underneath.

[rsn48]

Well I tried my buddies recommendation for a smaller wire but going through a small brass tube, the tube stiffens up the wire and it worked fine.  One down and two to go on the lower deck, the rest will be thrown by hand, and then some on the upper deck, auto reversed and auto thrown with manual over ride.

[alhoop]

Well I tried my buddies recommendation for a smaller wire but going through a small brass tube, the tube stiffens up the wire and it worked fine.  ................................

Just be sure to keep any moisture out of the brass tube when doing scenery work. I didn't on two of mine and the music wire rusted and
froze up in the brass tube.

Al

[peteski]

Well I tried my buddies recommendation for a smaller wire but going through a small brass tube, the tube stiffens up the wire and it worked fine.  One down and two to go on the lower deck, the rest will be thrown by hand, and then some on the upper deck, auto reversed and auto thrown with manual over ride.

Could you elaborate on how that works?  Maybe a simple diagram?
Also, what is the advantage of this wire through the tube (parts count: 2) rather than simply replacing the stock wire with a thicker wire (parts count: 1)?

[Sokramiketes]

If you don't take the spring out then you're not taking advantage of the slow motion of the Tortoise.  You might as well use cheaper solenoids if you leave it in.

[Zox]

Could you elaborate on how that works?  Maybe a simple diagram?
Also, what is the advantage of this wire through the tube (parts count: 2) rather than simply replacing the stock wire with a thicker wire (parts count: 1)?

The guide sleeve/tube constrains the wire to flexing only in torsion around its own center (one degree of freedom), rather than flexing up, down,  or in a spiral. Fewer degrees of freedom means less opportunity to divert energy from the intended purpose.

As for the advantages over simply using a thicker wire, I can think of four:

• it's easier to secure a stationary guide tube than a moving wire;
• a thicker wire might not fit into the connecting points (machine throw arm or switch tiebar) at either end;
• a thinner wire is easier to shape at the ends to make those final connections; and
• a thinner wire is less conspicuous where it may be visible in the scenery or trackwork.

[peteski]

If you don't take the spring out then you're not taking advantage of the slow motion of the Tortoise.  You might as well use cheaper solenoids if you leave it in.

There are reasons other than simply visual motion of the points for employing Tortoises with unmodified Peco switches.

No extremely jarring motion of twin-coil machine.
No loud snapping sound.
Very low current draw.
Ability to indicate the turnout position on multple control panels using just the 2 motor leads with LEDs in series.
Built-in DPDT contacts for powering frogs and/or signaling.
The switch throwing operation still takes longer time - the points just move faster half way through the cycle.