Another Sound Install: Atlas RS-11

[railnerd]

My latest sound effort is an Atlas RS-11.  ESU LokSound decoder; Knowles Fox speaker in enclosure made of .020 styrene.   Same basic layout as the GP7 that I did.  Love the start-up sequence, and I think ESU really nailed the ALCO 251 sound. 

John,

VERY cool.  Did you take any "step by step" pictures?

-Dave

[jdcolombo]

John,

VERY cool.  Did you take any "step by step" pictures?

-Dave

No, I didn't.  But there actually aren't many steps - I did post a thread about how I made the speaker enclosure.  That's step one.  Step 2 was a bit of frame milling to fit the speaker at the rear and LokSound at the front.  If you take the shell off an RS-11 and compare the mechanism to what you see in the photos, you'll see what I did, which is actually pretty minor - and I could take a photo of a stock frame to show what I cut.  The rest is just wiring the decoder to the motor pickups, speaker, and a small piece of PC board (cut from the original board) in the "slots" at the rear for power pickup.  I guess the final step was to drill #80 holes through the fan grill at the rear for sound egress, and thinning down the inside of the shell at the front just a hair so that the LokSound will fit (it's about a half-millimeter wide; I used a 1/4" sanding drum with a 250-grit drum in a dremel at its slowest speed to thin the inside of the shell just enough for the decoder to fit).  Well, now that I've written it out, there WERE more steps than I thought!

After I get back from a Thanksgiving trip next week I'm going to do an install in one of my SD9's; I'll try to take step-by-step photos when I do that one.

John C.

[wmcbride]

John,

I always loved those striped NKP units but most of what I saw as a kid was steam (and heard it every night puffing by and whistling). In the summer, my father would sometimes take us up the embankment onto the right-of-way where we could see way to the east and west. There was an evening passenger train that passed by us heading into Cleveland at 7:03 PM. We always called it the "7:03" and sometimes left pennies on the tracks and watched the headlight way to the east get brighter and the train get closer until it roared past. I want to say it was led by Bluebird PAs but it's been a long time and I was pretty young.

If you have a chance, and are so inclined, might you point us (or me via PM) of a good source for LokSound decoders?

Thanks again for all your pioneering work on these speakers. I just ordered ten and will see what I can do with them.

Bill McBride

[jdcolombo]

John,

I always loved those striped NKP units but most of what I saw as a kid was steam (and heard it every night puffing by and whistling). In the summer, my father would sometimes take us up the embankment onto the right-of-way where we could see way to the east and west. There was an evening passenger train that passed by us heading into Cleveland at 7:03 PM. We always called it the "7:03" and sometimes left pennies on the tracks and watched the headlight way to the east get brighter and the train get closer until it roared past. I want to say it was led by Bluebird PAs but it's been a long time and I was pretty young.

If you have a chance, and are so inclined, might you point us (or me via PM) of a good source for LokSound decoders?

Thanks again for all your pioneering work on these speakers. I just ordered ten and will see what I can do with them.

Bill McBride

Hi Bill - sent you a PM.

John

[reinhardtjh]

After I get back from a Thanksgiving trip next week I'm going to do an install in one of my SD9's; I'll try to take step-by-step photos when I do that one.

John C.

Is, perchance, a RS-3 in the future?     Did NKP have any?  Seriously, this is great work.  I'd been looking toward Zimo micro sound decoders for the GP7's but they really aren't that much smaller (and not any narrower) and with Atlas putting a LokSound in it's S2 I'd rather try to standardize on sound decoders somewhat.

[jdcolombo]

Is, perchance, a RS-3 in the future?     Did NKP have any?  Seriously, this is great work.  I'd been looking toward Zimo micro sound decoders for the GP7's but they really aren't that much smaller (and not any narrower) and with Atlas putting a LokSound in it's S2 I'd rather try to standardize on sound decoders somewhat.

Yes, the NKP had several RS3's, and I have several on order from Atlas when the new release comes out (which includes NKP units in the narrow-stripe paint scheme).  Whether I can fit everything into an RS3 shell without destroying the frame is a question I'll have to answer later.  And the RS3 used the 244 V-12 prime mover, not the 251B (I think).

I didn't know Atlas was going to use LokSound for the S-2.  That's VERY interesting, but makes perfect sense because ESU's U.S. team just finished a new sound file for the ALCO 539T prime mover.  The sound samples on their web site sound terrific.  I wonder if ESU is doing a new PC-board design for this?  If so, that design could easily be adapted to other split-frame locos.  Jeez - a drop-in LokSound board for all the Atlas diesels would be . . . spectacular.  I just hope that Atlas is using a decent speaker in a sealed enclosure to go along with it, because the best decoder in the world only sounds as good as the speaker installation.

John C.

[reinhardtjh]

I didn't know Atlas was going to use LokSound for the S-2.
John C.

Hmmm. I went back to the Atlas S-2 page to verify and it's not mentioned there. I swear i saw it somewhere... 

Found it... BLW's S-2 page.  Looks like Atlas' page but with the last line about the ESU LokSound added.  Did Atlas remove that line from a previous version? I guess we'll know in January.

[packers#1]

Its by the MSRP for the Gold series, in parentheses

I swear i saw it somewhere... 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

That other sound? Seusscaboose's K4...

[Mike Madonna]

Agreed.  I still think ESU's steam sound files are inferior to SoundTraxx.  So I've continued to use Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders in my steamers, but I use a second motor-only decoder (a Lenz) because I'm just not happy with the TSU's motor control.  But with the folks at ESU LLC running around the country recording everything they can get their hands on, it's just a matter of time before they upgrade their steam sound files.  In fact, I may leave a comment on their Facebook page that they should stop in Ft. Wayne Indiana and schedule a recording session with NKP 765, which would be a great basic file for two-cylinder "superpower" steam locos.  When you think about it, they can get current recordings from a lot of operating steam: UP's 4-8-4, Challenger (and one day in the future, Big Boy); the SP GS-4; the N&W J (again, sometime not too far in the future); Shays on various tourist railroads; etc.  When that happens, they will be very serious competition for SoundTraxx.

John C.

John,
Nice install with impressive results. Look forward to your SD-9 install. Is the SD a Atlas/China version? I have two Atlas (China) SD-7s that sound would indeed "fit". I have to respectfully disagree with your statement regarding the Loksound Steam file being "inferior". I say that in regards to the sound file for the SP AC-12 Cab Ahead (73809 Select Micro). I've heard both. The Loksound "nails it".....

[jdcolombo]

John,
Nice install with impressive results. Look forward to your SD-9 install. Is the SD a Atlas/China version? I have two Atlas (China) SD-7s that sound would indeed "fit". I have to respectfully disagree with your statement regarding the Loksound Steam file being "inferior". I say that in regards to the sound file for the SP AC-12 Cab Ahead (73809 Select Micro). I've heard both. The Loksound "nails it".....

I have both versions of the SD9, but it's the China version that I'll be putting sound in.  I'll probably do another RS-11 first, and post a tutorial on that.  The SD9 should be easier because it's a longer chassis - more room for the speaker.  But once you've done one of the narrow high-hood diesels, all the rest are basically the same technique: decoder in the front; speaker in the back; mill the frame enough to get everything to fit.

I'll admit that I hadn't listened to ESU's cab-forward file; I was looking for something that would work with my NKP Berkshires, and their generic steam files just weren't that good, IMHO.  But the cab-forward is a dedicated file, and like the dedicated diesel files (vs. the "generic" files), it is probably much better. 

John C.

[nstars]

Its by the MSRP for the Gold series, in parentheses

My guess is that Loksound recorded the 539 engine for the Atlas S2. The loco with speaker was already shown in Milwaukee. It still had the wrong soundfile, but the sound quality was impressive.

Marc

[BCR 570]

Very interesting thread.  I have put off sound for several years as I wasn't quite sure where it was going and how good it was going to get.  Dedicated sounds for Alco prime movers and the distinctive Canadian horns (if they are available) would certainly get me thinking about it again.  Getting decent speakers into hood units has been another stumbling block.

I am curious to know - could a conversion like this work on the older Atlas/Kato RS-3 and RS-11 drives?


Tim

[jdcolombo]

Very interesting thread.  I have put off sound for several years as I wasn't quite sure where it was going and how good it was going to get.  Dedicated sounds for Alco prime movers and the distinctive Canadian horns (if they are available) would certainly get me thinking about it again.  Getting decent speakers into hood units has been another stumbling block.

I am curious to know - could a conversion like this work on the older Atlas/Kato RS-3 and RS-11 drives?


Tim

It would almost certainly work with an older (non-DCC ready) RS-11, but it might take a bit more frame milling.  I have three of the old RS-11 chassis, and though I won't be putting sound in these, the overall dimensions are such that it could be done.   In fact,  I've made the space for an install in an old non-DCC GP9 chassis; I'm just waiting for more decoders to arrive before wiring it up. 

The older RS-3 I haven't looked at.  Again, I have three of them, but I'm waiting for the new run, which includes two in NKP paint.   The main problem I see with the RS3 is that the low hood limits options for a speaker - but it may be possible to put the speaker in the cab.  There's a really tiny cell-phone speaker sold as a "sugar cube" that is 8mm wide X 12mm long.  It comes with its own enclosure that is 6mm deep, but you wouldn't have to use that enclosure - you could build your own to make it smaller to fit the available space.  The 8mm X 12mm sugar cube sounds pretty good - not as good as the Knowles Fox, but decent enough for a space-challenged installation.

You can get an idea of what the sugar cube speakers sound like in comparison to the Knowles Fox by looking at my speaker comparison here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nUCXCIKitTk

The 8 x 12 sugar cube is the last speaker in this comparison, and I think it sounds better than the third speaker, which is larger (I think this is probably due to the fact that I glued on the enclosure around the 8x12, which made it air tight; the other one was stuck on with some sort of double-sided tape, and was probably leaking a lot of air).   I think the 8 x 12 would be a viable option if you didn't care too much about any semblance of bass response (e.g., if you were more interested in the bell/horn than in the rumble of the prime mover).

As for Canadian horns, you can find a list of the available horns (there's something like 16 different ones) available on LokSound's web site.  I don't know if any of them match what was used in Canada.  If you don't know the type of horn, you can hear samples of different horns by going to the SoundTraxx web site and listening to their horn sound samples - they have pretty much the same lineup of horns as LokSound.

John C.

[BCR 570]

Yes, a fair bit of room on top of the Atlas/Kato RS-11 chassis, which I am using for my MLW RS-10 and RS-18 units.

The RS-3s will definitely require milling to get the vertical space but the hood wisth is the same (as the two bodies share the same mechanism).

I checked the ESU website and they have the ALCO 244 sound file for my RS-3s and RS-10s, the ALCO 251 V-12 for my RS-18s, C-420 and M-420, and the ALCO 251 V-16 for my C-425, C-630M and M-630 locomotives, so the fleet is covered.  They also have the distinctive K5H horn.  I will have to check to see if the speaker you are using fits inside all of these locomotives in terms of interior width.   


Tim