A working RPO in N-Scale

[prbharris]

Will decals be provided?

Yes - after a number of false starts on the decal front [printing in white being the biggest problem] - we now can produce good decals. I should point out that there are some other commercially available suitable decals available for the PRR FM! We are hoping to have decals for every car produced from now on - and have produced some for the back catalog too.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

[chicken45]

I'm nervous about this. Let me be honest, my experience with the F30 was not a positive one.
Granted, these were still "Alan Curtis" kits.

My F30 was not level. No amount of bending will be able to make it truly flat on the deck.
The stake pockets on the car did not match the pockets on the wood deck.
The car sides looked like the surface of the moon. It is not easy to file down car sides correctly when there are stake pockets in the way.

What does the FM need to be successful?
Truck and coupler recommendations for "plug in play" installation. I don't want a science project and have to figure out what coupler works with what trucks and how much I'll have to file to get everything to fit. I want that part figured out for me. I want to drop in MTL 2004 couplers with MTL Bettendorf trucks and not have to file bolsters or coupler pockets. I don't think that's unreasonable.

It needs to be level and the deck needs to be flat.

The deck needs to align with the stake pockets.

Decals included. I have no doubt John Frantz would help with this since he already did a small run of them. 

Nice to have:
Rivets. I expect to have to add them myself. I'm ok with that.

If you're doing the container hardware, keep in mind there were three different styles of end bracing. The deck will be different too.

[prbharris]

Truck and coupler recommendations for "plug in play" installation....drop in MTL 2004 couplers with MTL Bettendorf trucks....deck needs to align with the stake pockets...Nice to have:
Rivets..

Your points are noted - and we hope to have them covered. As you can see from the detail picture, they should be incorporated

If you're doing the container hardware, keep in mind there were three different styles of end bracing. The deck will be different too.

Yes the deck will be different, I am not sure which of the container FMs to concentrate on; it does depend on the availability of the PRR containers. The SD1 containers are available. The end bracing for DD1 container traffic is straightforward compared to the bracing of the DD1A and DD4 container styles.. Although Gatwood and Buchan are not totally clear on the subject, it would appear that the DD1 style were in use until the end of container service in Oct 1950 - or was it only the later FM conversions with the  'gondola like end and short side extensions' that continued until the end of container service?

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

[chicken45]

Your points are noted - and we hope to have them covered. As you can see from the detail picture, they should be incorporated

Yes the deck will be different, I am not sure which of the container FMs to concentrate on; it does depend on the availability of the PRR containers. The SD1 containers are available. The end bracing for DD1 container traffic is straightforward compared to the bracing of the DD1A and DD4 container styles.. Although Gatwood and Buchan are not totally clear on the subject, it would appear that the DD1 style were in use until the end of container service in Oct 1950 - or was it only the later FM conversions with the  'gondola like end and short side extensions' that continued until the end of container service?

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

Peter,
That makes me very happy to hear! It's important for the car sides to be flat and likely sand-able. If rivets are cast on, it's super important to have the car side be as free from deformities as possible, but you already knew that. Before I saw that you were adding rivets, I was thinking of how we could have stake pockets and still make the side easy to sand down. My idea was to have the stake pockets as a separately applied part. There would be small indentations in the car side where you align and glue the pockets after sanding the car side shiny.

I know there are DD1 containers on Shapeways (https://www.shapeways.com/product/X7NZQ2EWC/prr-dd1-containers-in-n-scale?li=search-results-1&optionId=56652737)
but who makes SD containers?
I guess the question is, could you put any container on any FM in container service? Were there DD1a specific cars?
My answer is, I doubt it. I've seen three variations of bracing:
small corner cup


medium corner cup


large with grab irons




I've seen pictures where different containers are being used with the same kinds of braces.
So in short, let's ask @dougnelson !

In other news...maybe the next car could be an F31. We can use them for MOW stuff in addition to this:

[VonRyan]

Now that Peter has stepped...

The reason Camden & Amboy Models dropped the FM project is because I emailed Peter after seeing his query about the FM in Lemosteam's design suggestion thread, and I asked Peter if he was considering producing an FM flatcar kit. Thus I was informed that N Scale Kits' was also working on their own FM project, and that they are offering all three versions of the FM, whereas C&A was only planning on offering the standard version.

Rather than make a product that would directly compete with Peter's, I discussed things with Peter and I concluded that it would be best if Camden & Amboy Models stopped our FM project in order to pursue other possibilities.

There are enough prototypes out there that haven't been manufactured yet, so it would be silly for two small manufacturers to produce kits of the same prototype.

[chicken45]

No. Fight to the death.

[prbharris]

No. Fight to the death.

Sir - I do hope that you are not being 'ear-ist' - that is not logical But seriously...

Camden & Amboy Models stopped our FM project in order to pursue other possibilities.

... I do appreciate the co-operation from Cody, and I would not be pursuing the matter if C&A were going ahead. Anyway, the outcome means that we will now really have to come good on the project!

to have the stake pockets as a separately applied part. There would be small indentations in the car side where you align and glue the pockets after sanding the car side shiny. .

I am less sure that this would work, as the stake pockets are pretty small. I suggest that they would be better cast in, as shown on the previous screen shot. However, they would have to be removed for container service, and I will see if this is possible without removing the rivet detail. If not we may have to produce two versions but this really reduces the viability as there would have to be two tools developed. Alternatively we use your suggestion, but then the dimples for the pockets would have an impact on sills for the container version.

but who makes SD containers?

Oops sorry it was the DD1s, as you point out - apologies. I do not think there are the SDs available yet at the moment - but as a car comes out that takes the SD1 and DD4s I am sure that there will be.

  three variations of bracing:
small corner cup
medium corner cup
large with grab irons

I would suggest that each of the three types of end bracing would be on the brass etch, so that modelers could choose which one to install, the container bunks appear to be similar for each type.

Were there DD1a specific cars?

Probably not - it seems that the pictures with the DD1 containers have the medium corner cup.

  .maybe the next car could be an F31.

Hold on ... lets get the FM done first - but I will put the idea onto the list of ideas for casting in metal!

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

[sirenwerks]

I am less sure that this would work, as the stake pockets are pretty small. I suggest that they would be better cast in, as shown on the previous screen shot. However, they would have to be removed for container service, and I will see if this is possible without removing the rivet detail. If not we may have to produce two versions but this really reduces the viability as there would have to be two tools developed. Alternatively we use your suggestion, but then the dimples for the pockets would have an impact on sills for the container version.

Peter,


You might want to look at Eric Cox's Shapeways work as a possible solution - https://www.shapeways.com/product/XJ7HD7YAP/a13a15-n-scale-stake-pockets-single-and-double?li=shop-results&optionId=43710220

[chicken45]

Peter,


You might want to look at Eric Cox's Shapeways work as a possible solution - https://www.shapeways.com/product/XJ7HD7YAP/a13a15-n-scale-stake-pockets-single-and-double?li=shop-results&optionId=43710220

Damnit! @Lemosteam said these were too small to 3D print!

[Lemosteam]

@chicken45 Not criticizing the product in any way, but you might read the fine print from his description, hence my observation and comment to you:

About this Product
8 types of N scale stake pockets, 4 have single staples, 4 double, 24 of each. Total 192 pieces. Each pocket has a recess for a stake and a 0.6x2mm mounting pin on the back to fit in a #72 drill hole.
Single staple (or U-bolt) styles (2) and variants measure ~1.2 x 1.3 mm
Double staple style and variant measures ~1.2 x 1.5 mm
Double ribbed style is a little larger
Triple ribbed cast style also larger
Clean with alcohol before painting. Use Bestine rubber cement remover if particularly greasy. Contact panamintmodels@aol.com for different quantities. See also my A14 and A16 mixed staple styles with stakes. It's probably a good idea to check the "print it anyway" box when ordering because some details may be thinner than design rules allow.

[jimmo]

It's probably a good idea to check the "print it anyway" box when ordering because some details may be thinner than design rules allow.

I am under the impression that only the designer can use the "print it anyways" option. Did they expand this?

[chicken45]

@chicken45 Not criticizing the product in any way, but you might read the fine print from his description, hence my observation and comment to you:

About this Product
8 types of N scale stake pockets, 4 have single staples, 4 double, 24 of each. Total 192 pieces. Each pocket has a recess for a stake and a 0.6x2mm mounting pin on the back to fit in a #72 drill hole.
Single staple (or U-bolt) styles (2) and variants measure ~1.2 x 1.3 mm
Double staple style and variant measures ~1.2 x 1.5 mm
Double ribbed style is a little larger
Triple ribbed cast style also larger
Clean with alcohol before painting. Use Bestine rubber cement remover if particularly greasy. Contact panamintmodels@aol.com for different quantities. See also my A14 and A16 mixed staple styles with stakes. It's probably a good idea to check the "print it anyway" box when ordering because some details may be thinner than design rules allow.

I don't have time to read all those words!

[Lemosteam]

@chicken45 I don't think you are capable of reading all those words!

[VonRyan]

Found a possible solution over the weekend...

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

A 24VDC spring-loaded solenoid that I scored for only $1. The bracket that stops the spring-loaded Rod from going too far back is removeable, which will need to be done to better fit this thing inside the RPO car. Even without the bracket, I'd have to cut a hole
In the floor of the RPO so that the solenoid could sit low enou. For the roof to be able to be put back on.
The 24v requirement also means that I'm back to having a set of spung pick-up shoes coming out of the bottom of the car to contact some strips installed in pseudo water-troughs in the track near the mail crane.

[peteski]

I might have a smaller 12V solenoid like the one you found.  I'll have dig through my stash of parts.