Big city, little layout

[robwill84]

Are those Peco turnouts available with electro-frogs?

They're not, which is their only downside, besides being code 80. However, at only 3/8" long, the frogs are actually shorter than the weelbase on most 4 axle trucks, so that at any given time only one wheel is actually over a dead spot. They're really well built little turnouts.

[Cajonpassfan]

Nice concept! Looking forward to see your progress... amazing what one can do in our scale, eh?
Otto K.

[VonRyan]

Are those Peco turnouts available with electro-frogs?

I think they were in OO9.
Saw a layout in a magazine that had them, but don't know if they can still be purchased.


-Cody F.

[robwill84]

I think they were in OO9.
Saw a layout in a magazine that had them, but don't know if they can still be purchased.


-Cody F.

They make a similar turnout with electrofrog in HOe/oo9 but it has larger ties to look like narrow gauge track.

[VonRyan]

The ties aren't too bad with a bit of trimming and adding in some more ties. It's certainly worthwhile to do since it will allow better pickup... Especially with a sound decoder in that 44 tonner.


-Cody F.

[robwill84]

The ties aren't too bad with a bit of trimming and adding in some more ties. It's certainly worthwhile to do since it will allow better pickup... Especially with a sound decoder in that 44 tonner.


-Cody F.

I looked into them, and their also about an inch longer than the st5 & st6 turnouts. So, I'll stick with them. I modified the plan to put a short space inbetween the two "trouble spot" turnouts, so that solves that problem.

[robwill84]

Had some more suggestions on Trainboard, about moving the turnout to the far left out of the road, changing the alignment of the A-Z car lot, and changing the angle of the DD Adams ave. buildings in the upper right corner.

I like the idea of moving the turnout out of the way, and made the change on this revision. I also wanted to move the oil depot out of the city, so it worked out well. The only thing I don't like about running the road all the way through, is that I was planning on putting a backdrop along the left, and using a building flat to help disguise the end of the layout. Now there is a road running up to it, which always seems awkward and hard to hide.

I also tilted the A-Z used car lot so that the building faces out towards the layout edge and follows the street. The idea is that it is open to the edge of the layout, and is accessed by a road off scene. I was originally picturing it facing the road and having the edge of the layout lined with the barriers and signs but that would be very prone to damage so this works much better.

I'm leaving the DD building as is for now, one of the neatest things on that kit is the large FAST LOANS sign that goes on one side wall, so I need at least one wall available. Also across the street from that is a Willmodels Buddy's Waffle House building, and if I tilt the DD kit, it eliminates that little corner where it just fits in.



Let me know what you think, everybody, and thanks for all the support!

[robwill84]

Nice concept! Looking forward to see your progress... amazing what one can do in our scale, eh?
Otto K.

It really is Otto. Especially when you consider that to build this layout in HO, I would be looking at a table measuring approximately 4x6 feet!

[OldEastRR]

Wow! You used another of my suggestions (for the through street)! I didn't know you were planning any backdrops along the sides, to get in the way of the road. I assumed you just had all four sides open to give a lot of different ways to look at the layout.Because if you super-detail and put interesting mini-scenes in, then you'd want everybody to see everything. What I thought about  was how neat that street would look from eye-level : sighting down a canyon of buildings that go on and on.
The idea with the car lot is pretty good, and uses a concept not many layouts do: assume the edge of a highway runs  along the edge of the layout, with road out in space so to speak. In this case I suggest you put a little of the "floating" street on the layout -- just a small triangular slice that makes a 90 degree to the main drag and runs in front of the carlot. This would help the streets as a grid look. You could even put a traffic signal at the street corner to reinforce the idea its an intersection, not just road going off the layout. The idea of putting all the lot's signs billboards and etc at the back of the lot, making a clear separation between the lot and the ROW, is good not only visually but as you say, will prevent damage.

[robwill84]

Wow! You used another of my suggestions (for the through street)! I didn't know you were planning any backdrops along the sides, to get in the way of the road. I assumed you just had all four sides open to give a lot of different ways to look at the layout.Because if you super-detail and put interesting mini-scenes in, then you'd want everybody to see everything. What I thought about  was how neat that street would look from eye-level : sighting down a canyon of buildings that go on and on.
The idea with the car lot is pretty good, and uses a concept not many layouts do: assume the edge of a highway runs  along the edge of the layout, with road out in space so to speak. In this case I suggest you put a little of the "floating" street on the layout -- just a small triangular slice that makes a 90 degree to the main drag and runs in front of the carlot. This would help the streets as a grid look. You could even put a traffic signal at the street corner to reinforce the idea its an intersection, not just road going off the layout. The idea of putting all the lot's signs billboards and etc at the back of the lot, making a clear separation between the lot and the ROW, is good not only visually but as you say, will prevent damage.

Your ideas have been really helpful, thanks! For now I'm going to have the whole corner be the parking lot of the A-Z car lot, and have a little triangle of sidewalk in the corner. It's deceptive how small the layout really is. When I blow up the plan to full scale, that lot only has room for a few cars. And yeah, I'll definitely have a scene with a dude checking out a car. It will make a great little scene. 

[OldEastRR]

Yes, a little triangle of sidewalk on the corner of the layout by the carlot is all you need to give the impression that a street is there. So many modelers think they need big structures to convey an image -- but a small detail like a piece of sidewalk on a corner edge can imply just as much.
Have you thought about putting another "grand tower" in the place where the diner is now? And stick the diner off on a side street, like it was a hash house? If you have to squash it into a small space even that would work -- in a downtown all the footage is worth something and they stuck all kinds of small businesses in all kinds of places, no matter how small. News, shoeshine and hot dog stands were jammed into narrow spaces only 8-10' wide between big buildings. There are hardly any open spaces in a really busy city area. You could jam  up all the empty spaces between your buildings and right up to the edge of the ROW and it wouldn't look odd at all. No suggestions on how to do that, just noting a fact about real cities.

[screeh]

This is going to look fantastic, can't wait to see more in-progress pictures!

OldEastRR's comment about moving the diner got me thinking: have you considered arranging the buildings so they are paired up across the main street?

I'll freely admit to being unfamiliar with American urban design although I would expect to see like with like: grand looking towers near one another, and the heights and facade styles graduating from high rise offices to mid rise mixed use and then to factories and warehouses. Is/was it common for fancy high rise places to be directly opposite diners and car yards? Are we looking at urban renewal, with swank new structures popping up in a rundown part of the city?

...and of course, this is YOUR city to build as you see fit, and I can shut up any time if this isn't helping

[robwill84]

Yes, a little triangle of sidewalk on the corner of the layout by the carlot is all you need to give the impression that a street is there. So many modelers think they need big structures to convey an image -- but a small detail like a piece of sidewalk on a corner edge can imply just as much.
Have you thought about putting another "grand tower" in the place where the diner is now? And stick the diner off on a side street, like it was a hash house? If you have to squash it into a small space even that would work -- in a downtown all the footage is worth something and they stuck all kinds of small businesses in all kinds of places, no matter how small. News, shoeshine and hot dog stands were jammed into narrow spaces only 8-10' wide between big buildings. There are hardly any open spaces in a really busy city area. You could jam  up all the empty spaces between your buildings and right up to the edge of the ROW and it wouldn't look odd at all. No suggestions on how to do that, just noting a fact about real cities.

I would like to put another building where the diner is, but the problem is that putting anythign wide and tall in that spot really hides the rest of the tall buildings. Instead of seeing the a nice row of buildings that draws your eye into the rest of the layout, you see... the back of a big building. You then have to awkwardly look around that building and then down the street, and that view actually makes the street look really narrow and unrealistic. That is why I take a lot of time to arrange things in 3D. Sometimes you draw up something that looks great on paper, but doesn't work when you mock it up.

[robwill84]

This is going to look fantastic, can't wait to see more in-progress pictures!

OldEastRR's comment about moving the diner got me thinking: have you considered arranging the buildings so they are paired up across the main street?

I'll freely admit to being unfamiliar with American urban design although I would expect to see like with like: grand looking towers near one another, and the heights and facade styles graduating from high rise offices to mid rise mixed use and then to factories and warehouses. Is/was it common for fancy high rise places to be directly opposite diners and car yards? Are we looking at urban renewal, with swank new structures popping up in a rundown part of the city?

...and of course, this is YOUR city to build as you see fit, and I can shut up any time if this isn't helping

A picture is worth a thousand words, so here is a link to the wonderful work of Bob Smaus.

http://www.bobsgardenpath.com/NewLayout.html

Lots of different heights, industrial buildings mixed right in with hotels, and lots of different building heights. (See the above post for my explanation of the diner location.) No heavy industry, but plenty of warehouses. My taller buildings might be pushing the boundries a little bit, but they're really not that tall. I think it will all work well together, I can only hope it turns out as nice as Bob's layout!

[robwill84]

Here is a better pic that I can use to demonstrate what I'm looking at when I put a taller building where the diner is now:

http://www.bobsgardenpath.com/Deja-vu.html

Now, imagine that scene with with another tall building right about where the SP switcher is, and you can see what I mean about blocking out a really nice scene.