Author Topic: Best Of New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic  (Read 107578 times)

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spookshow

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #345 on: June 11, 2014, 07:51:19 PM »
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In all seriousness, I'd go with black. Based on this one picture, it just seems right (or at least right enough that no living rivet counter in all the world could call it wrong).



Cheers,
-Mark

peteski

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #346 on: June 11, 2014, 09:03:53 PM »
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To me the handrail around the belt-line of the hood looks black.  The handrail going down to the side steps looks orange and the handrail going to the door is orange and maroon (matching the body paint).

I suspect that there were variations in the way these locos were painted and that anything you choose will probably be correct for some time period or some specific loco. To me this is bordering on being too obsessive. I would paint the handrail using whatever colors look best to me.  ;)
. . . 42 . . .

nickelplate759

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #347 on: June 11, 2014, 09:55:11 PM »
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That end shot absolutely looks like it has a black separation line on the sheet metal, and the handrails AND the two end-grabs that are directly over that separation line are also black.

George
George
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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

robwill84

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #348 on: June 11, 2014, 10:10:58 PM »
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I'd appreciate input from forum folks on painting.

As I finally get ready to do some real painting.... I'm looking over some conflicting information.

Here is the top of the line EP-2 made (so far as I can see).  It is an Iron Horse Models Bipolar in brass.  These things tend to sell toward $2,000 and that is not even with DCC.

Notice that the walkway is black.... when I have already established that is should be red (maroon that looks more like "berry" to me).

But also, note where the separation between the orange and the red is (and that red looks awful to me).
Here is a hi-rez link to the HO scale model.
http://www.brasstrains.com/images/products/033373/DSC04097.jpg

The separation is UNDER the side handrail.  So the side rails are thus ORANGE.

Because the handrails would be tricky to mask, it would appear to me obvious that the whole model was painted red first.  Then it was masked over the red, and then the orange was applied.

But on the prototype, this shot appears to have red handrails.
Notice at the left Cab, that the separation is just under that railing at the door to the cab.



This this model painted by Tony Hines is far superior.
Red rails.



In this shot, the grab iron at the separation is orange.
They also have a black separation line decal between the orange and red.
http://www.brasstrains.com/images/products/033373/DSC04099.jpg

Now look at almost the same angle.



This is about the closest shot I can find of this loco.
And the rails almost look black to me.
I know it is a low angle, and maybe it is a shadow.
But they look like the rails are RIGHT ON the separation.
The door DOES appear to have a black separation line and the rails look to be the same color possibly (which would make sense.).


Here is another view.
I actually bought this slide.


Once again, the rails look like they COULD be black.  But it is very hard to tell.

There are not a lot of color photos I have found of this 1948/49 loco.

Only opinion I have on painting is finish it off with a gloss coat. Note the prototype photo, it is obviously very shiny and well kept. The model, with a flat finish, looks dull and lifeless in comparison. A gloss coat would make the colors appear richer and match the photo better. Notice how the sun reflects off the side in a nice sharp, bright line on the prototype and the model is just a dull satiny color. Even the trucks on the prototype are glinting in the sun.  Just my two cents, something that has always bothered me about otherwise very competently done paint jobs.

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #349 on: June 11, 2014, 11:42:17 PM »
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To me the handrail around the belt-line of the hood looks black.  The handrail going down to the side steps looks orange and the handrail going to the door is orange and maroon (matching the body paint).

I suspect that there were variations in the way these locos were painted and that anything you choose will probably be correct for some time period or some specific loco. To me this is bordering on being too obsessive. I would paint the handrail using whatever colors look best to me.  ;)

Actually, there was only one painted exactly like this.   Though in a general way, this scheme appeared on 4 bipolars.

During this time period, you had the following (as best as I can reconstruct).

E-1 was the first painted out of black.  It was an experimental scheme not repeated.
http://www.microcosmologist.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Milwaukee-Road-Bipolar-E1-in-the-experimental-Olympian-Hiawatha-paint-scheme.jpg

http://streamstylegraphics.com/shop/image/cache/data/IMG_Models/DSC03412Large-800x600.JPG

As an interesting point- notice the handrail along the body is black.

E-3.  Next, E-3 was painted in a brand new Hiawatha scheme.  This one had 6 silver stripes on the nose.  This is the one I am modeling.
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/2513/E3_Rail_Rd_Fair_Color.png

E-2,4 & 5 were also painted into the "Railroad Fair scheme, but they only had 5 silver stripes (which happen to match the height of the sand boxes on the nose).

However, look at this photo of E-2.  It clearly has other variations. 
The gray at the cab roofs is closer to black.
The pantographs are painted red.
The yellow stripe at the bottom of the boiler  room may or may not be missing.
At any rate, the tilted red box herald is at a different height, crossing the separation line.
http://www.microcosmologist.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Milwaukee-Road-Bipolar-at-Seattle-Union-Station-1950s.jpg

Then, all 5 were painted into the cigar band scheme.


« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 11:49:05 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

SkipGear

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #350 on: June 12, 2014, 03:25:44 AM »
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Ron,
 There are fine black lines seperating each color. even between the gray and orange. I did them with decals.

As far as painting....(Test colors tos suit as opinions vary)

Tamiya metal primer first (it's clear)
Flat White laquer as a color primer
Spray Orange
Tape off for Gray and Red areas.
Spray Orange again to seal edges of tape.
Cover Red area - spray Gray.
Cover Gray area - spray Red.
Remove tape, touch up as needed.
Decal using lots of MicroSet and MicroSol to finish them. Contrary to popular opinion I find it works much better than Walthers solvaset. I've never seen a need to clear a model before decaling, haven't had any issues yet.
Clear with Tamiya semi-gloss clear (pretty sure it is not available at this time, labeling issues have kept it out of stock for about 6 months now.) Gloss makes an N scale model toy like, flat is not right for something that should be shiny in real life.

Colors if I remember are:
Orange - Polyscale GN Orange (Polyscale Milwaukee Road Orange was rather dull for this loco)
Red - Polyscale NYC Pacemaker Red
Gray - Polyscale UP Dark Gray

The stainless insert in the red was a an Alps Metalic Silver decal on the one I painted.
I seem to remember wanting the red break lower on the model than it ended up but something on the ends of the model didn't line up correctly so I fudged and average between the two. At least one of the photos I worked from showed red handrails.

These were picked by the owner after about 20 minutes in the shop, holding up jars of paint to the 3-4 books he had with color photos to decide.
Tony Hines

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #351 on: June 12, 2014, 07:21:49 PM »
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I am so grateful for everyone's input.

I have decided to do the side rails in black.
Since ...
1. the separation between the red and orange is exactly at those rails...
2. and since there is a black separation stripe between these colors...

Then it makes sense visually that the rails would be black since they .... when viewed from the side.... would appear right over the black separation stripe and would blend in with that stripe.


Also, as far as paint, I had already purchased Milw Rd colors in Badger Model Flex paint.
Found some up-opened bottles in a hobby shop and got them a couple of months ago.



The colors seem good to me.
The only one that might possibly be a little off is the gray.  It might be one shade lighter.
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #352 on: June 12, 2014, 07:39:55 PM »
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As I'm forced to think and plan about painting and masking....

I discovered one other small change I might have made to the stock shell (there is ALWAYS something else a perfectionist could do)....

Look again at the grab irons on the nose at the color separation.



Now look again at the model.


1. The left side (facing) is not a drop grabiron (red).

2. The right side (though straight, unlike the left) has a separate grab from the side rail.

So if I were doing this again, I would replace the grab on the left.
I would then cut and fix the grab on the right.

But at this point, it would be overkill.  I've done too much to have to strip the shell and re-do what I have done to this point.

When properly painted.....
1.  The drop part of the grab will be red and blend in.
2.  There will be a black stripe where the grab should have been (un-dropped).  So visually, the black line will be unbroken.


By the way.  You can see the holes at the bottom of the nose.
Those grabs were not installed on purpose.
They should be silver and would be hard to mask if installed.
I will just paint and install them last.



« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 12:03:49 AM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

spookshow

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #353 on: June 13, 2014, 06:01:40 PM »
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Seems like we're focusing on the eye motes when the plank is the way bigger issue!

I mean, look at this... it's basically insulting!



Clearly the divider between the windows in the door is uneven!  :facepalm:

OK, major legal action isn't necessarily the way to go here (although still on the table). But in any case, this "model" (so called) is basically a piece of junk and should be tossed into the nearest landfill!

Am I right, Asshats?  :ashat: Are with you with me here?

Cheers,
-Mark

peteski

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #354 on: June 13, 2014, 07:32:33 PM »
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Seems like we're focusing on the eye motes when the plank is the way bigger issue!

OK, major legal action isn't necessarily the way to go here (although still on the table). But in any case, this "model" (so called) is basically a piece of junk and should be tossed into the nearest landfill!

Am I right, Asshats?  :ashat: Are with you with me here?

Cheers,
-Mark

LOL! That was good Mark!

On a serious note though, what caught my eye is the thickness of the handrails. They look huge!  They look like they are made from 0.020" brass rod.  Hopefully black pint will make them look thinner.
. . . 42 . . .

spookshow

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #355 on: June 13, 2014, 08:30:44 PM »
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Hopefully black pint will make them look thinner.

Or several black pints  :D



Cheers,
-Mark

Greyryder

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #356 on: June 13, 2014, 08:38:33 PM »
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LOL! That was good Mark!

On a serious note though, what caught my eye is the thickness of the handrails. They look huge!  They look like they are made from 0.020" brass rod.  Hopefully black pint will make them look thinner.

Everything looks better, with enough pints. :trollface:

Kisatchie

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #357 on: June 13, 2014, 08:50:47 PM »
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Everything looks better, with enough pints. :trollface:


Hmm... I a(hic)gree...

Two scientists create a teleportation ray, and they try it out on a cricket. They put the cricket on one of the two teleportation pads in the room, and they turn the ray on.
The cricket jumps across the room onto the other pad.
"It works! It works!"

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #358 on: June 14, 2014, 08:05:52 AM »
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Seems like we're focusing on the eye motes when the plank is the way bigger issue!

I mean, look at this... it's basically insulting!



Clearly the divider between the windows in the door is uneven!  :facepalm:

OK, major legal action isn't necessarily the way to go here (although still on the table). But in any case, this "model" (so called) is basically a piece of junk and should be tossed into the nearest landfill!

Am I right, Asshats?  :ashat: Are with you with me here?

Cheers,
-Mark

Actually, if you had spoken up a little sooner, I would have been able to fix that.
 ;)
Ron Bearden
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http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

Chris333

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #359 on: June 14, 2014, 09:16:50 AM »
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I have a question about the grit blaster. Does it basically spray like paint would or much less? I was using mine yesterday and the grit was coming out and working, but it was only spraying maybe a 1/8" blast and was taking forever to get the whole thing covered. Just wondering if I'm doing it right.