Author Topic: Best Of New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic  (Read 107408 times)

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u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2013, 08:50:12 PM »
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Been pretty busy and not much modelling.  Time to try to get a little caught up.

Time to get this loco running.

First, the motor tabs are too long.
I trim them just a little shy of even with the plastic housing.  See the red line.



I then turn the motor tabs to point down (less chance of shorting).  And remember from the discussion above, one motor needs to be "up" and one "down."

I then solder the red wire (to the front truck) to the right motor tab.  The motor is front, the gearbox is rear.



I then solder a jumper wire from the left motor tab.....



...to the motor support brace.



Each loco half (or Cab, as I call it- with a capital C) is now self contained.
Both should run--- and if wired correctly and assembled correctly (as discussed above) the two Cabs should run the SAME direction.

Now, it will probably run horrible.  That's because there is a WHOLE lot more work to do.



Chassis needs some serious tuning.
Also, electrical pick up can be greatly improved.


« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 08:51:48 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2013, 09:30:40 PM »
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I'm about to make another major change in the design of this loco.

In order to better understand this decision, let's reflect a bit on the differences between this new EP-2 and the original '83 EP-2 by NJ Custom Brass.

First, both models were designed to have a jumper wire to the front idler truck.
This wire ALWAYS eventually breaks.
I've solved that with the wiper system change as described early in this thread.



Another nightmare part about the NJ model was a jumper wire between the shell and the motor.  The wire was soldered to a socket in the shell (more on that next).


Problem- if you need to take the shell off more than only a couple of times, this wire WILL break.  And soldering it back to the socket in the shell is a horrible experience.  This wire is functional (it transmits electricity) but it is useless for everyday practical use.  A reasonable person is just going to have to get into the shell several times.  Or a LOT of times over the lifetime of the loco.  How else can you at least oil the motor bearings.  Something just must change.

Now, here is the socket in the rear of the shell- hidden in the vestibule.


NJ used a jumper wire from one socket to another.
Here is the idea.  Each cab draws electricity from 7 axles.  The front truck (one rail) has three.  The rear power truck (the other rail) has four.  Sounds like a decent amount-- but experience says otherwise.

So why not connect the two Cabs together electrically!  Then each motor in each Cab will draw from 6 axles and 8 axles respectively.  That's MUCH better.

Now, this is only actually in theory.  The jumper wire is self evident.  It connects the idler trucks.  Now we have 6 axles sending juice.

But what about the power trucks?  How do they share electricity since there is no jumper wire? 
The answer is-- remember that the SHELL is charged electrically the same as the power trucks.  So if the metal shell from one Cab touches the other Cab, then the power trucks are connected!  But that only works in theory in the factory.  In reality .... uhhhhhh... we paint out models.  When that happens, we loose the connectivity between shells--- that is until the paint begins to wear (haha).

OK.   Now that I redesigned the front truck pickup and solved that problem....
1.  I want a way to EASILY remove the shell and any wiring that gets in the way.  No more broken wires or re-soldering.
2.  I find it interesting that  KMT designed these NEW locos with NO jumper between Cabs.   The socket is gone.  Each Cab is on its own.   That's too bad.  I thought it was a help.  I plan to put the jumpers back (and better than originally designed).

3.  Even the jumper wires to the motor are a problem.  I'm the kind of guy that is assembling and disassembling these locos all the time.  And each time-- those jumper wires have to be unsoldered, and then resoldered.

And each time that happens, more and more of the insulation melts.  And the performance and reliability of the jumpers degrades.

The Point!  What I plan to do is make my own custom wiring harness so that everything in this loco is MODULAR electrically.  It is tricky, and space is tight,  but I think it pays off in the long run.

More next time.

Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

peteski

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2013, 11:00:24 PM »
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The wire harness is an excellent idea Ron - especially if for some reason, in the future, you would want to convert this model to DCC.  :trollface:
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u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2013, 12:49:19 AM »
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bing bing bing!!

Give that man a Krispy Kreme doughnut!

Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

peteski

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2013, 03:48:29 AM »
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bing bing bing!!

Give that man a Krispy Kreme doughnut!


MMMMM!  A warm glazed KK doughnut, right off the conveyer belt!  We don't have them around here anymore.  :(
. . . 42 . . .

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2013, 10:53:35 AM »
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Time to make the wiring harness.  This is a bit time consuming and tedious, but I think it is worth it for the reasons described above.

The key parts that make all this happen and feasible are some micro-miniature plugs that I came across.

I have ALWAYS been interested in tiny connectors to better facilitate my kitbashing.  In fact I just bought some last August when I was in a hobby shop in Georgia.

Unfortunately, sort of like the Holy Grail.... I never quite find what I want.

That is until I discovered these from Train Control Systems (TCS).
Disclaimer:  I don't work for TCS or have any connection to them at all.  But as most of you who know me, I do tend to like their decoders and have written quite a number of installation instructions for them.

They call them Micro-connectors.
http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Products/Supplies/Connectors/Micro_Conn/index.html

I will admit to you, they are a little pricey-  but man are they ever small.
For this project, I also had to make an order with Digikey (for the copper coated fiberglass board on page 1).  I searched and searched Digikey for a connector this small and failed.  I then even used the Online chat with a Digikey employee- and failed.

I don't know who TCS's supplier is, but these connectors are REALLY small- and perfect for N scale applications.

(other people are welcome to post what you use as connectors.  Either your experiences with these from TCS or something else).

OK.  First we need a place to mount all this stuff.

I took some heat shields out of my parts box and they worked perfectly.
Atlas still has them.  They are the heat shields for the old Atlas/Kato/Japan RS-1  (not China, and the heat shield for the old U25B is similar, but does not have a key part- the lip).


The heat shield is made of steel and sticks to the motor magnets.  I like to position it so that the right edge is INSIDE the inner edge of the motor frame.
As shown here.



I then hold it firmly in place and bend the little tab on the outside edge..
(I'm not doing a very straight job because I'm using two hands and taking photos with a bulb in my mouth.. lol).



OK.  It is bent.  This is the basic position I want.



But that bend is not very sharp.  I'll use some pliers to make it more of a 90 degree angle instead of a sharp curve- like here.



A good fit for that bend is key-- since that will be our connection for transmitting electricity.  Remember, in almost all Kumata locos, the frame is hot.  So we are going to use that to our advantage in this loco.
Electricity will come from the left rail to the frame, and then to the heat shield that is touching the motor mount L-bracket.



The next step is to scratch some paint off in the corner as shown.
I try to score the metal pretty good but yet keep my area pretty small.



I don't go all the way to the edge.  This is a good spot.
I place it on a piece of wood.  Flux it and solder it (tin it).  I get it pretty hot.



Now, I have to admit to you that this step sort-of surprised (and pleased) me.

1.  This plate must be steel since the magnets hold it.
2.  I didn't think common solder would stick to steel.
3.  But I'm telling you, that little blob does not appear to be going anywhere.  I pushed and scraped at it with a screwdriver, and it is stuck.
So, I'm sure some of you guys can add info or insight here.
Either you CAN solder to steel (and I was mistaken) or this little plate is an alloy with steel in it.
(or it is made of some other metal that both sticks to magnets and can be soldered-- sorry this is out of my area of expertise).

All I know is it appears to work.
We can now get electricity from the frame to where we want it to go.

Here is a TCS 4-wire micro plug set.  I went with the DCC color set.  They also sell them in plain back and white.
And yes, as Peteski said, I have DCC in mind the whole way.



I'm getting an idea of where to mount this.  The 4 plug socket will go about in the middle.  I want it near the left edge so it can plug in from the right.  But the wires cannot obstruct the flywheel.


I cut the socket wires to these lengths.  You can see the size of the socket here.  It is about 2mm x 3mm.


I solder the black wire first since I don't want to melt anything else.


They gray then goes over the black and down to the left motor tab.


I lift the red wire up slightly and pass the orange under it and down to the right motor tab.


I'll deal with the red wire next time.  It is the "problem wire."  If I want to be modular, I don't want to solder the red plug wire to the red wire going down to the front truck-- because I would then not be able to get the motor out without unsoldering said connection.
I need a different plan.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 10:57:01 AM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

central.vermont

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2013, 11:20:23 AM »
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Ron,

I've been following this and it is a great tutorial with a lot of helpful hints that are helpful in other installs. That problem
red wire you were just talking about, what if you cut one of those micro mini plugs apart so you have a single pin and plug
set up wouldn't that work?

Jon

peteski

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2013, 01:37:44 PM »
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Ron,
While not 1mm-pitch connectors, Digikey sells 0.050" pitch 50-position, singe or double row headers (male) and sockets (female) which can be easily made into connectors.  That is just a tiny bit larger than they ones you used.  One of these days I'll photograph the way I make them and post the tutorial here.  It is cheaper than ready-made connectors and you can make them in any size (from 1 to 100 pins).
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u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2013, 10:33:18 PM »
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Jon
Good suggestion. It is possible to modify them. But I'll have more options with a stock socket.
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

nkalanaga

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2013, 12:56:10 AM »
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Sure, you can solder to steel.  The problem is that steel tends to oxidize so fast that it's almost impossible to get it clean, hot, and make the joint before it's dirty again.  Acid flux works much better on steel, but should NEVER be used for electrical joints, which rules it out for most of our purposes.
N Kalanaga
Be well

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2013, 02:09:02 AM »
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Peteski,
I look forward to seeing what you've done.


Nick, thanks for the soldering info.
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2013, 09:18:10 AM »
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Now we will deal with the red wire.

I'm going to use a TCS 2-pin micro-connector.  Man, these are really small.
Don't need the wires to it since I'm going to use this as a kind of junction box.



Very gently twist the ends together.  Can't be too forceful or the sockets will pull out of the plastic.



Flux and solder.



Insulate with tiny shrink wrap.  You can get 1mm shrink wrap on ebay.



Insulating is necessary since I'm mounting this on top of the heat shield which is charged oppositely.
Now notice the position of the two sockets.  This is a test fit. 
There is a raised portion in the middle of the heat shield to make room for the spinning motor poles underneath.
The 2-pin socket fits in the lower portion right up against the ridge for the high part.
The 4-pin sock is lined up on the same line.  That's important since the socket is just a little wider than the raised portion.  Instinct might tell you to center it.  But we want it slightly off to the side since a plug is going to plug into it and we need free room to travel.
So with the orientation of this photo, note that the 4-pin socket is shifted "down" (which is really toward the right side since the motor is in the nose).



I then VERY carefully apply some fresh Crazy Glue to the bottom of the socket and press them to the metal until set.  You can see just a little too much glue on the 2-pin socket has oozed forward.  The danger of too much glue is that it wicks (fills in tiny crevices) and will go INSIDE the socket if it has a chance.



I then go to the 4-pin socket and bend all wires away from the flywheel so there is good clearance and then add just a TINY amount of glue to the back of the shrink wrap to stiffen the wires and hold the whole thing in place.


I then strip, twist, flux and lightly solder the tip of the red wire.  Trim, and it makes a plug that fits into the junction socket.  The red wire that comes up from the truck can also plug in the same way.
Now, when I need to disassemble and remove the motor, I just pull the red plug.  The harness stays in place on the motor.  No more soldering and unsoldering!


Further, it should now be obvious that a decoder can now just PLUG into the 4-pin socket!


Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

peteski

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2013, 02:18:23 PM »
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Looks good Ron.  The only thing I would have made different is to use 7-pin socket (and extra wires in the harness) to allow for headlights and common positive. After all, who wants a DCC loco without headlights?  :?
I know that you can add those wires at any time, but it would have been nice to only need to make a single plug-in connections.
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spookshow

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2013, 05:18:21 PM »
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Given the dual motor situation, would it be better to go with two decoders or just one? I guess with two you'd have a shot at speed-matching the two cabs if it turns out that the motors don't run quite the same.

Cheers,
-Mark
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 05:20:13 PM by spookshow »

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2013, 11:09:41 PM »
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Looks good Ron.  The only thing I would have made different is to use 7-pin socket (and extra wires in the harness) to allow for headlights and common positive. After all, who wants a DCC loco without headlights?  :?
I know that you can add those wires at any time, but it would have been nice to only need to make a single plug-in connections.

Peteski,
Good point.  But with this very crowded configuration I have adapted, there is no room for a decoder in the chassis.  It must go in the shell.  And since the LED wires go to the decoder, then we don't need them down here on the chassis.

The actual decoder installation is a little ways away.  At first, I'll be running with full headlights in analog.

It is slow work.  But I'm getting closer.

Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.