Author Topic: Best Of New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic  (Read 107472 times)

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nkalanaga

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #615 on: August 29, 2014, 02:45:26 AM »
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Would it be out of line to suggest that the "Fonts" portion of this thread be copied to its own thread, possibly in "Prototype Railroads"?  I'd imagine that it would be of interest to a lot of members who aren't interested in N scale MILW electrics, so wouldn't read this thread.
N Kalanaga
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u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #616 on: August 29, 2014, 10:46:11 AM »
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That's a good suggestion.

--When Peteski finishes his work
--we have actual decals
--and they are installed

That will finish out this part of the discussion.

That would be a good time to post it.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #617 on: August 29, 2014, 11:57:57 AM »
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If any other Milwaukee Rd modelers want the font....

You can download it from my Public Dropbox folder.


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85188679/RRFairFont.zip

I hope it is somewhat useful to you.
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

Sokramiketes

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #618 on: August 29, 2014, 04:37:33 PM »
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Mikem
You may be correct.

But it doesn't look flat to me.
It is a fuzzy photo (zoomed in), but it looks curved to me.



I also checked and found it interesting that the decal maker sort of rounded his A too.



To be honest, this is so small, and the contrast between silver and orange is such that you can barely read the letters with your naked eye.
It is only in macro photos that it even shows.

One could use the same fuzzy photo argument to say that there isn't a hard corner on any of the letters!  ;)

You are correct that in N scale it will be at the limits of what can be printed anyway.  But, since you took the time to do the font that could be scaled up for other projects, I thought you might like to know that all versions of the Milwaukee block font had flat topped 'A's.

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #619 on: August 29, 2014, 05:53:12 PM »
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Mike,

You are probably right.
My reference to the fuzzy shot was not meant as an excuse-- only to say that I'm stumped trying to find more documentation.

There is only one photo that I have ever seen of the nose of this loco- and it is not entirely clear.

Anyway, one other thing I have concluded is that this nose decal only applies to this loco.
I've seen a few other locos that did not have this decal.

So for example, I have seen a shot of E4 which did not have the nose herald.

I'll probably make the correction in the font.

Font has been changed.

If you used the link above to download the font and you want a flat A, then re-download it.


« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 06:05:59 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

nkalanaga

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #620 on: August 30, 2014, 01:15:58 AM »
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Thank you for the font!
N Kalanaga
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peteski

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #621 on: August 30, 2014, 10:45:06 AM »
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Mike,

You are probably right.
My reference to the fuzzy shot was not meant as an excuse-- only to say that I'm stumped trying to find more documentation.

There is only one photo that I have ever seen of the nose of this loco- and it is not entirely clear.

Anyway, one other thing I have concluded is that this nose decal only applies to this loco.
I've seen a few other locos that did not have this decal.

So for example, I have seen a shot of E4 which did not have the nose herald.

I'll probably make the correction in the font.

Font has been changed.

If you used the link above to download the font and you want a flat A, then re-download it.

When Ron send me the artwork, the nose lettering "font" didn't seem to match the photo very well.  Using his lettering I redrew the letters. I made them much narrower and corrected them so the stroke was more even in all the letters. I also flattened the tops of the As, but since Ron liked them rounded I didn't make them totally flat. I'm not sure if those redrawn letters is what Ron used in his current iteration of the font or if he rolled his own.

Ron, once I have the photo of the nose with a ruler included for size reference, I'll be able to size the nose lettering properly.
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u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #622 on: August 30, 2014, 11:12:21 AM »
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Peteski,

Check your email.

Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #623 on: August 30, 2014, 11:55:59 AM »
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Todays post is on measurement technique and theory.

Those of you who are carpenters and scientists will already know this.
But there may be other who don't and can benefit.
(my undergrad degree was in Chemistry- which uses a lot of very precise instruments.  That's where I learned this.).

Peteski needs to size the drawings as accurately as possible.
But he needs some accurate reference points.
He does not have the model, so I have to measure it for him.

He needs the nose width so he can perfect the nose herald.  Corel Draw can measure lines to the third decimal point (at least).  So accuracy can be helpful to him.



At first glance, I could tell him that the nose is 15 mm wide.

But that is NOT the case.  It is not 15.000 mm (more on decimals in a minute).

Reason:  The line on the ruler has width!
So the technique for those trained in this is to arbitrarily decide WHERE on the mark you are referencing.
The most common options are:  Left side of the mark,  dead in the middle of the mark,  or right side of the mark.

In this case, I'm pretty lined up with the LEFT side of the mark.

So wherever my terminal measurement is, it needs to be to the LEFT side of that mark (whatever it is).

So lets zoom in a little.



You can clearly see that the model extends PAST the left side of the mark.

Now comes measurement error.
From this spot, the only thing I KNOW is that it is more than 15 mm.
From here, I can estimate the next unit (which in this case is the first decimal place).
If it looks like it is more than .1 but less than .2, I CANNOT say that it is 1.5.  Because .1 and .2 are estimations themselves, I can never be more accurate than the estimation.
(besides, there will be a SLIGHT error on the other end- exactly how close was I to the left side of the mark when I started).

This is called measurement error theory.

So when I look at this photo (better than with my naked eye, but I might say this if measuring with an optivisor)....



that width looks like 15.2 mm to me.  But I could be off at the starting measure by .1 mm as well. 
So, the error is +/- .2 mm.  So it could be 15.0, 15.1, 15.2, 15.3, or 15.4 mm.

But actually, I can do even better digitally (and check how good my estimation was).

First, when I zoom in VERY close on the starting measure, I was actually pretty close to the mark.

I then import that last photo into CorelDraw.  I then draw one yellow rectangle. I then reproduce it exactly.  Now I have two.  I do that until I have 10 rectangles EXACTLY alike.  See below.




I then group those rectangles (one tenths) and size them to go from a LEFT side of a mark to the next LEFT side of a mark.  I now have new hash marks for my ruler.



And now you can see that 15.2 was pretty close.
Depending on how accurate I was on the left side of the model, this could be 15.25 mm.  Error would be .01 on the initial measure and .01 on this measure so =  +/- .02.    So the most precise I can be is 15.25 mm (+/- .02 mm).

So the point of this exercise was not to show how many decimal points of a millimeter I can go LOL. 

It was simply to show you that in the very first photo above-- that is NOT 15 mm.  A novice might have said that.  It is clearly MORE- but not much more.

So I'll tell Peteski to use 15.25 as his reference.  And he can reproduce that number in Corel Draw.




« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 12:08:00 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #624 on: August 30, 2014, 06:31:29 PM »
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Peteski wanted a paint chip so he could be more precise in what he does (I'll let him explain that part).

So I took a 3 inch piece of thin styrene.



Painted the primer on it.



Painted the Orange on it.  Normally this is not good.  The primer is laquer based and the orange is water based.   Since the primer has not cured at all, the orange could peel (no pun intended Dee!).  But since this is just to test colors, we don't care.



I used a hair dryer and put a couple of light coats.  And then clear coated.  The goal is to approximate the model.

I then added EL Maroon to the end.
I guessed at this color.
The color photos I have seen of the Railroad Fair scheme show that the red on the body is a berry color.  The Herald is a darker color (even though they are both called "maroon."

So the EL still had a slight berry color, but was browner.




Hey, just for fun, I compared this paint chip to Mark's Little Joe.



The EL maroon is not bad as long as it is THICK and the orange is totally obscured (which is not quite the case here.).







Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

JanesCustomTrain

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #625 on: August 30, 2014, 09:23:38 PM »
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So the point of this exercise was not to show how many decimal points of a millimeter I can go LOL. 

It was simply to show you that in the very first photo above-- that is NOT 15 mm.  A novice might have said that.  It is clearly MORE- but not much more.

So I'll tell Peteski to use 15.25 as his reference.  And he can reproduce that number in Corel Draw.

Did you double check it with a digital caliper ?    ;)

Jane
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u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #626 on: August 30, 2014, 11:37:32 PM »
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LOL.  Don't have one.

But on my list to get one day.

They are not that expensive.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=caliper

Don't have any excuse.
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

VonRyan

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #627 on: August 31, 2014, 12:35:46 PM »
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Careful with digital ones. Make sure it isn't made in China. Mine is and it isn't worth a darn.
Cody W Fisher  —  Wandering soul from a bygone era.
Tired.
Fighting to reclaim shreds of the past.

peteski

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #628 on: August 31, 2014, 04:32:21 PM »
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Cody,
while in general I agree about Chinese-made tools being crappy, I own and use 3 or 4 digital calipers or similar measuring tools and I know of could of friends who own similar tools. These work as advertised (then measure correctly and accurately). Maybe you got a real lemon.  Also, when the batteries get weak, these calipers can "flip out" and start showing random numbers.  Change the battery maybe?

Ron, I really don't have to be as accurate as possible - just as accurate as needed to be for making decals.  ;)  When I scan models (on my flat-bed scanner) as a reference for making parts or decals, I don't even need a ruler as a reference. If I import the scan at the same dpi (dots per inch) value as when it was scanned, I have prefect and accurate reference.  But if a ruler is needed for reference (when using a photograph not a scan), then I simply reference the leading edge of the graduation lines. That way the thickness of the line does not introduce any errors, and I don't have to split hairs to find the center of the graduations.

I will post more details about the decal artwork process when I have it all figured out. I like to post results after I finish a small project like this.
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u18b

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Re: New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic
« Reply #629 on: August 31, 2014, 06:30:10 PM »
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Peteski,

Since you mentioned flat bed scanners.....

I have found over the years that not all are equal.  Some have a slight paralax effect, meaning there is some ever so slight distortion if the object is not centered.

The one I have now is better in that regard but is TERRIBLE at 3d objects.  If what you are scanning does not lay flat right up to the glass... then forget about it.
Ron Bearden
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http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.