Best Of New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic

[spookshow]

Maybe just make a styrene center sill under there, mostly just as a view block not a detail. There must be a little area you can fill between the body and the trucks.  I always add a piece of sheet styrene under steam fireboxes so there isn't a bunch of light around the trailing trucks. No detail, just a light blocker.

That's not a bad idea at all. But I guess Ron would know best as far as how much that might conceivably impact performance.

Cheers,
-Mark

[u18b]

Yeah.   This is a CLASSIC case of moving toward modernism while hanging on to the past.

This is a "new model" and it really is great.  But why oh why would you design it to run with 1980s pizza cutters?

The original model didn't actually have pizza cutters, but the new wheels are MUCH finer scale and could certainly run on code 40 track.

So yeah.... I've actually thought about filling that gap somehow.

[SkipGear]

This may or may not help. A few years back I re-geared, tuned and painted an HO version for the father of a gentleman in our N-trak club. He is an over the top Milwaukee fan and handed me a half dozen books with photos including this one from the fair. Sorry for the poor scan...



The result....

[u18b]

Tony,
WOW.  Thanks.

I see you did the walkway surface in red like I thought.

And I love the vintage photo.

Hey.... if anybody else has a photo of this loco (especially in color), please share.

It is only E-3.  And it has:
six silver stripes (not five like the rest).
And you can tell it was associated with the Railroad Fair if the Sandboxes on the nose are gone.  (why they removed them, I don't know- other than making it lighter to deadhead to Chicago from the west coast.)

[u18b]

OK you guys.

I really was about to sandblast this thing to get it ready for primer....

And once again, the Railwire Community has shamed inspired me to do better.   

I have a few things cooking.
 

Whether it works or not, we'll see....   

[central.vermont]

OK you guys.

I really was about to sandblast this thing to get it ready for primer....

And once again, the Railwire Community has shamed inspired me to do better.   

I have a few things cooking.
 

Whether it works or not, we'll see....   

Oh we love too help. 

Jon

[u18b]

Still working on filling the underframe gap.  Making progress, but it feels slow.

On another topic, I have really studied photos- this time of the boiler room roof.

And I see no handrails.

Check out this great side shot again.


So I will be cutting the two rails off the boiler room.

[nkalanaga]

Those "pointy posts" may be flag/light holders.  In the pictures I can find they disappeared after the motors were rebuilt, and class lights appeared on the upper corners of the hoods.  It would make sense to put the flags down there, as the railroad wouldn't want crew climbing around on the hoods in electrified territory.  You can see the new lights and lack of posts in this picture:


http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=831438

 

[u18b]

I studied almost every photo of EP-2s I could find looking for underframe detail.

I couldn't find any.  About all you can see is shadows.

So I figured it didn't matter much what I did to take up space as long as it didn't obviously look stupid.  It will be painted black, and all I need to do is block some light.

So I thought I would make some sills under the cabin where it would be the worst.  In fact, these almost certainly had some kind of sill.

I cut some small square brass tubing to fit.


Then I had to file all the paint off the bottom of the under-plate on the cabin so that solder would stick.



I brightened up the bass on the tube, applied flux (not near the end since I don't want to solder the floor to the wall!
I then placed some solder on the iron and touched it in a couple of spots to hold the sill in place.
Notice that everything acts as a heat sink and cools the solder almost instantly.
I didn't care at this moment.  I do NOT want to over heat the bottom plate and cause the hangers to come loose.  That would be a nightmare to recover from.
Solder goes on the inside edge since no one will be able to see it there.



Now the other one.  Notice I'm butting up against the screws.  This keeps everything straight and acts like a guide.



Time to melt the solder a bit better.
These clamps act as heat sinks.  I'm not concerned with the tubing.  The heat sinks are really for the floor (and to keep everything from moving).



I then use my Hybrid Soldering Station I refined.  This thing has been very helpful for this project.
In this case, the intense heat melts the solder and improves the joint at that spot.  I can also move around a bit of excess solder.
Of course the heat spreads, so I blow everything off to cool it down before moving to another spot.
(Clearly a true resistance soldering unit would be the best, but my unit is a cheap helper).



A file is used to clean up the excess solder.



Here is the finished product.



And mounted.  Not totally pretty, but it will all be painted black and cannot be seen when in place on the track.



Hmmmmm.  A definite improvement, but still a big gap.
I think I'll do more.

[u18b]

Using the small square brass tubing, I decided to make a sill on one of the Cabs.

I knew space would be potentially tight.  It could go on the walkway or on the main frame.  I didn't think there would be enough room from the front truck if mounted on the main frame, so I went with the walkway.



Test fitting and studying revealed a couple of obstacles.
I couldn't cover the screw hole (purple)
I had to cut a notch for the step ladder (green)
The steam pipe on one side obstructed the tube, but not by much (blue)
And the highest point on the truck was on the mounting brace for the sideframes (red).



I used my motortool with a ceramic cutoff wheel to thin the steam pipe so that the square tube would go behind it.



I cut two tubes a good length (46 mm) and used a little super glue to hold them.  Not ready to commit to soldering yet.



Test fit.
The Cab on the left looks a lot better.
I think there is JUST enough clearance between the new sill and the front truck brace.
I wish I didn't have a gap for that screw at the corners of the cabs, but it can't be helped.



I still have to test run this configuration to make sure that real-world performance is not harmed.

[u18b]

Since the Cab is better, the glaring problem is still the boiler room - or what I sometimes call the cabin.

The small square brass tubing I used was too small- especially since the floor is actually recessed unto the bottom of the cabin walls.

So how about some bigger tubing.  Looking through my parts box, I found this K&S assortment.  They all fit within each other and get gradually bigger.

The one on the right is what I tried.  The one on the left is two small tubes tall.  So I'll try the one in the middle.



Test fitting.  I think two might be better since if a truck screw rubs this, I don't want it to get caught on a curve.
Obviously, a solid rectangle might have been better, but I didn't have one.



I've soldered the new tubes in place.
Hey, they are hollow.  I might as well fill them with something for extra weight.



All soldered and sealed.



I took the floor and ran the new tubes over a file in order to smooth them down and to make sure they are exactly the same height.

Here, the floor is finished.



Wow!  Now we're getting somewhere.
I think I messed up in reverse.  The large in the middle and small toward the outside makes the height differential less noticeable.

Now, I still need some testing time.  I think that is plenty of the room between the sill and the screws, but the real problem might be coming off a grade when the middle axles will be lifted.

[peteski]

Ron, these are some major improvements!  After it is all painted black, it will look great!

[mmagliaro]

Ron,
Was it really easier to make all that channel work to visually close up the gap, rather than just lower
the whole thing on the trucks?    As for shorts under there, a thin sheet of mylar could be glued to the underside of the whole chassis.  Nobody would ever see it.  It would prevent the wheels or truck frames from ever touching  the frame.

[Chris333]

Not knowing the prototype I just thought it was at correct height. Either way it is looking much better now.

[u18b]

Not knowing the prototype I just thought it was at correct height. Either way it is looking much better now.

Ummmmm.  This is N scale.  (just kidding)   


Max,

I don't know that it would be easier.  It might be better in some measure, but a lot of work would have to go into re-engineering this.

Let me show you.  I made some drawings, and they are exaggerated for illustration purposes.



Drawing A is what I have created now.  The drive train has been perfectly balanced and tuned.
However, it does indeed sit a bit high- mostly over the rear... that is the 4 axle truck.

It is the gearbox that totally controls the distance between the walkway and the trucks.

If I shimmed the gearbox to raise it.... that would lower the distance between the walkway and the truck over the 4 axle truck.

But.......

1.  It would take some experimenting to get that correct height.
2.  But the drive train is no longer tuned (drawing B).  soooooo.......
3.  I would have to shim the motor mount too and hope that it does not rock (hopefully not, but I like to think things through).
4.  But I shimmed the motor (red) to reduce vibration.  That would have to be redone.
5.  The loco is designed the way it is (even though I have modded the drive train).
There is a weight which sits in the cab over the motor.  If I raise the motor too much, the weight/shell might not fit any longer.

So lowering is do-able.  But this loco is already tuned.  And besides, the sills I'm adding actually do help I think.

By the way, having become intimate with all EP-2 variations.... there is another problem.
 More weight needs to be on the 4 axle truck than the dummy front truck.

On the old 1983 EP-2, one of the design flaws is that the mechanism was too high over the front truck by about 1 mm.  What that meant was any additional weight went toward the support mechanism (bushing) of the front truck and (crazy as this sounds).... adding weight to the old EP-2 actually could potentially REDUCE traction.

That's why I lowered the front bushing.... so more weight would go on the rear driven truck.

Long answer to your question.
Sorry.