How to repeat PL's on the facia without breaking the bank

[eric220]

You forget good sir - he's geographically close enough to MC to contract the tree work for repetative cases of craft beverages and periodic fresh Dungeness crabs.

Eric,
Reading all this over, I'm struck by a juxtaposition - you are pursuing this approach because of "simplicity" and ease of implementation (as opposed to diode trees and round LED holders), but the track schematics are awash in repeaters - and look none too simple to me.  What am I missing, aside from your desire to farm assembly work to your track gang?

I don't think I can afford MC trees, for the number that I'll need! 

In addition to giving the gandy dancers work, what I'm looking for here is a way to reproduce the on-layout signals on the facia.  The idea is that even if the on-layout signals are obscured or pointed away from the aisle due to track geography, the repeater is still visible.  This all stemmed from this thread: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=30653 Of particular significance, one of the sides of the four-track crossover falls into the category of impossible to see because of track geography.

[John]

Steve Mallery does this  .. http://www.pamodelrailroads.com/smallery

[MichaelWinicki]

Oooh.

I like that John.

I think that's a much better approach that having to back away from the fascia to see/read what's going on.

[Philip H]

I don't think I can afford MC trees, for the number that I'll need! 

In addition to giving the gandy dancers work, what I'm looking for here is a way to reproduce the on-layout signals on the facia.  The idea is that even if the on-layout signals are obscured or pointed away from the aisle due to track geography, the repeater is still visible.  This all stemmed from this thread: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=30653 Of particular significance, one of the sides of the four-track crossover falls into the category of impossible to see because of track geography.

Eric,
I asked an imprecise question. Is building and mounting enough repeaters to match this diagram

Really less work then wiring the diode arrays?

[eric220]

I think you might be misinterpreting that diagram.  In that one, I was exploring the minimum size of using 3mm LED PL's per Peteski's suggestion versus the cab signal style.  There are two different PL arrangements, demonstrating my issue with orientation and real estate, and one cab signal for size comparison.   You're looking at three different things in one diagram.

[Philip H]

SO the one repeater in the center is the stand in for all the signals, and the two groups on each side are intellectual exercises in placement of the actual signals?

[eric220]

SO the one repeater in the center is the stand in for all the signals, and the two groups on each side are intellectual exercises in placement of the actual signals?

The cab signal in the middle is only there for size comparison.  The two PL clusters to the sides are experiments with the concept of using 3mm LEDs to replicate PL aspects.

[eric220]

Here's another thought.  I've been tied to the idea of integrating the repeater with the track diagram that would also include things like turnout controls.  If instead I break away the repeater into its own display, separate from any other diagrams,



This four track arrangement becomes pretty tall, but there are only a few four track signal bridges on the layout.  The two track version is a much more manageable 3.25" or so tall.

[TiVoPrince]

Perhaps
reduce to 2mm LEDs?  Auction 111086882036 might inspire, but require a redesign...

[VonRyan]

Or to save some money, get extendable dental-like mirrors for the crew to view the on layout signals. 

(I support the cab-signal idea)


-Cody F.

[eric220]

Or to save some money, get extendable dental-like mirrors for the crew to view the on layout signals. 

(I support the cab-signal idea)

I would be lying if I said that I hadn't thought about strategically placed mirrors.   

I also have to admit that Peteski has lead me to discover that the 3mm LED full position light option is nowhere near as impractical as I initially thought.  It's still more complex and quite a bit more expensive than the cab signal version, but it's well within the realm of possibility.  I've also figured out how I would implement it, and it has the attraction of not having any RP parts on the displayed surface.  Now I'm torn.  I like the cab signal style just for the uniqueness and simplicity (from an assembly standpoint) of it, but there is certainly an attraction to having real PL aspects as well.  In either case, the decision is partly going to hinge on coming up with a way to clearly display the repeaters so that they don't look like just a sea of lights.

[eric220]

Some food for thought.  These two bridges are displaying the same aspects.

[mmagliaro]

While the PRR style cab signals are cool looking, I'm afraid I come down on the side of everyday use, simplicity and interpretation
for operators.   You can get 3-LED "traffic light" style LED assemblies like this for under $1 a piece.  They could be mounted into
your panel and give very simple, clear indication that would take up a lot less space and
be more quickly understood. 

[cv_acr]

On the other hand, I would argue for having the SAME indications on layout and repeater so it's all consistent. Mixing two different types of signal systems would probably be the most confusing.

As long as the crew knows the difference between "Stop", "Clear", and "Anything Else" that's honestly probably enough to get by for operating on the model; the physics being a little different than the prototype. But having all of the full correct indications display certainly adds to the correct scenery and atmosphere, and for those that are really familiar with the signal indications, gives them a little more information.

[eric220]

While the PRR style cab signals are cool looking, I'm afraid I come down on the side of everyday use, simplicity and interpretation
for operators.   You can get 3-LED "traffic light" style LED assemblies like this for under $1 a piece.  They could be mounted into
your panel and give very simple, clear indication that would take up a lot less space and
be more quickly understood. 

Again, I admit that I've considered going that route too.  It's by far the smallest, fastest, and most instantly understandable system.  As John's picture shows, these also have the advantage of being able to be positioned horizontally without affecting the aspect.  I've even considered colorizing the cab signals to make them more legible.

I've decided against colored signals, if possible, because using PRR style signals as the facia repeaters is an easy way to reinforce the PRR prototype.  I'm already fudging so many things with my altered history, I think this is a good opportunity to Pennsy-up-the-place, as it were.  I agree that the signals aren't as instantly recognizable as a simple traffic light or colored searchlight, but for the most part I'm going to have a consistent group of operators.  They should be able to learn the PL system.  If it turns out to be a problem, a simple sign on the wall or diagram in the track warrant should help.